Jail Social Workers

[Diflower]

There aren't any 'tried and tested old methods' as regards children/social services in general.
Such things didn't used to exist. The children were killed soon after birth or left to die, or neglected to the extent that they died anyway, and no questions asked. Or abused so horrifically that they eventually died, and were no doubt glad to escape any way they could.

Children (and adults) were locked up/incarcerated indefinitely for being - oh, all sorts of things - not much excuse needed really, except they might be a bit difficult. And as for those that needed real help - God help them.
How anyone can say no intervention whatsoever is better is beyond me.

So, no social services? You're quite happy that 'someone' sees a 3-year-old, in a dirty flat, on a flea-infested mattress, obviously extremely undernourished, stinking of poo and wee, but has no-one to tell, no way out for this child? You just leave them to die, do you?

[cromwell]

So, no social services? You're quite happy that 'someone' sees a 3-year-old, in a dirty flat, on a flea-infested mattress, obviously extremely undernourished, stinking of poo and wee, but has no-one to tell, no way out for this child? You just leave them to die, do you?

So what happens now?
We rescue the child and place it into the care system.
Of all the children who go into care, how many come out of it and make a go of their lives, and how many descend into a life of unemployment, crime, prison and drugs? How many have children of their own who also end up in care?
So if children's social services can't be abolished, how could they be reformed? Or is the status quo acceptable?

[debih]

So, no social services? You're quite happy that 'someone' sees a 3-year-old, in a dirty flat, on a flea-infested mattress, obviously extremely undernourished, stinking of poo and wee, but has no-one to tell, no way out for this child? You just leave them to die, do you?

So what happens now?
We rescue the child and place it into the care system.
Of all the children who go into care, how many come out of it and make a go of their lives, and how many descend into a life of unemployment, crime, prison and drugs? How many have children of their own who also end up in care?
So if children's social services can't be abolished, how could they be reformed? Or is the status quo acceptable?

It all depends on how quickly they act and get a child out of there. Children aged 5 or over are quite hard to place adoption wise, although it does happen (we matched two 9 year olds with new families a couple of months ago). The majority of older children and more damaged children tend to go into foster care and as long as the foster carers are good (which I am sure the majority are) then I think they stand a very good chance of going on to lead a "normal" life. I think the ones that are more likely to descend into a life of crime and prison (I won't count unemployment as that is the pathway for many teenagers nowdays, no matter what their background - the same with drugs) are those that end up either going into residential homes or staying with their parents.

The cycle needs to be broken - therefore the more children that can be removed from a violent and abusive environment, the more chance they have of breaking that cycle.

No - the status quo isn't acceptable but it is more acceptable than life without childrens social services. It is never acceptable to leave a child living in fear and danger.

And I don't particularly think it is the social care system that needs to be reformed - what needs doing is breaking the cycle of abuse which means that every single one of us needs to be more aware and report things, not just decide that it is nothing to do with us. That includes the social workers, doctors, teachers, police, etc - everyone has to take responsibility.

As a nation we are more likely to report the mistreatment of an animal than we are of a child or vulnerable adult. So it's not only the parents that abuse their children that need educating, its the rest of us that need to feel that we can report our friends, neighbours or total strangers if we think someone is in danger.

Easier said than done sadly - so many people now would be too fearful of being classed as a busy body and professional people are too afraid of being accused of wrong doing.

[KateLMead]

Debih, yourself as like Shells husband are dedicated to their work..
I am a great deal older than yourself, I can agree with much of what you write when it comes to the record of the SS in days of yore. My mother was born in Hitchin workhouse, as children we were placed in care, my brothers and sister separated. Barnado's was always reasonably caring according to what I was told by my siblings, though they rarely discuss their care , me? I was shifted from pillow to post being a somewhat "difficult" child always running away (known as "Miss penny platform ticket". a friend in one of the homes I was in who was also considered difficult was placed in an asylum, like me she resented being where she was and the treatment metered out. I developed a great friendship when I lived in Cheltenham where I lived in my thirties with a group of lovely women who had been released from the asylum where they had been interned their crime "having a baby". They were released under a Conservative government back into the community.
The fact that horror stories existed in my childhood and adulthood does not excuse the behaviour of councils and the SS today. We also note the majority of babies snatched in a most horrific way are "babies and new born's" not too difficult to be adopted!!. And if those SS department hit their targets they get a big fat reward of 1m
Defend your departments all you like and there are as I have stated dedicated social workers... but do not excuse the inexcusable.

[debih]

I would never excuse the inexcusable Kate - I just think it happens much less than you do. But who knows which of us is right.

Yes, Baby P and the likes are horrific and should never have been allowed to happen but they are few and far between. The media make a huge circus out of it which makes it stick in our mind more (and there is nothing wrong with that - we should never forget these poor children).

It's the same as child abductions I suppose - it doesn't happen any more than it did in years gone by, we are just more aware of it now.

[Kaz]

I think you are right Debih xx

[KateLMead]

Xxxx Debih Shell and Kaz. I really don't want to offend and I know I am controversial to a point of irritation to so many who are tolerant of my views. (Thank you)
Wednesday there is a programme on female (and these are children) mutilation on TV that is rife, and no intervention takes place, if we live in this supposed diverse society, why are there exceptions when it comes to other nationalities practices, Cleansing children said to be possessed in those African chapels that are not "a few"

[debih]

You are not irritating Kate - far from it. We would be a very boring world if we all agreed with each other!

I haven't seen anything about that programme - is it set in the UK (not that that matters - it is a horrific practice where ever it is carried out). I don't think things like that are ignored and nothing done about it - I think it is so underground that it is hard for the authorities to know how rife it is or isn't. The parents that put their child through it aren't going to tell anyone about it and neither are the people that do it or those in the culture that condone it. It is a very hidden thing, I would assume.

It is a cultural thing isn't it (I know nothing about it I have to admit) so I assume that it is something very hidden inside those cultures and very difficult to get to know about.

It's the whole culture that needs educating there- why on earth do they do it? Does it have some religious symbolicness (is symbolicness a word?)

[pederito1]

I think the word is symbolicalness, Debs. Genital mutilation of either sex has always infuriated me, can be done at any time after the age of consent but never reversed.

[Suff]

My experience of social services in deprived areas is that most of them are scared of the worst offenders and go to great lengths not to bring down their ire or wrath. Witness the Grahams of Glenrothes, the "Family from Hell". The courts, at the advice of the social services, let their drug dealer father out of jail (for his 6th drink driving whilst banned), because "his children needed him". Who racked up 76 offenses (the one's they caught them at), at the childrens panel without any action

Middle class families, on the other hand, had a life off hell with the SS because they needed to compensate their lack of engagement with the truly at risk.

For SS workers like that my contempt has no bounds.

On the other hand my admiration for SS workers who go into these situations and deal with these people, is complete and without limit too.

Sadly the second type of SS worker is very hard to find and a vanishing breed.