Primary school pupils - I hate Think Tanks.

[Workingman]

The latest "news" from Think Tank world is the "discovery" that a lot of pupils start primary schools in nappies and cannot use a knife and fork, they have no social skills, some do not even know their own names; this leads to them falling behind from day one.

Where have these self-appointed, pseudo intellectual, latte swilling Think Tank idiots been? Primary school teachers have been saying this for years and yet nobody in the upper echelons of education has paid any attention. The problem didn't exist until now, apparently, and now it's too late.

[Rodo]

The problem was well under way 20 years ago as I know from personal experience. You are right, nobody ever listens to the teachers.

[Workingman]

You say 20 years ago, and that will (should) shock a lot of people, but it is true. That is about how long ago my children were starting school and reception always had two or three problem pupil/parent combinations.

[Lozzles]

I remember when my eldest was about to start school the headmaster told us that all the children needed to be able to dress, eat with a knife and fork, tie their shoe laces etc. My children could do all those things from an early age so I was shocked that he suggested that some children couldn't do those things. That was 23 years ago, so it has obviously going on for some time. How sad that some children are so unprepared for life.

[cruiser2]

Some people who have children-you can't call them parents, do not teach them basic skills as they were probably brought up without being taught anything until they went to school. Too much watching TV, smoking and drinking to worry about their children

[cromwell]

The latest "news" from Think Tank world is the "discovery" that a lot of pupils start primary schools in nappies and cannot use a knife and fork, they have no social skills, some do not even know their own names; this leads to them falling behind from day one.

Yes. Some children just take longer to develop, but some come from crap families who never teach them how to use a knife and fork, how to put their pullover on etc.
Of course they "fall behind". At the end of the school day they return to blanksville.

[Suff]

I see two sides to this. One is the expectations of the school and the other is the parental support.

I recall my oldest grandson going to a private school when he was just shy of 4. His mother was called in because he could not use a knife and fork to their standards. As for tying shoelaces??? Velcro.

However the school expected high standards and got it. He did well, excelled, got excellent marks. Then he went to a Grammar. Expectations were lower and control was also lower. Eventually he dropped out.

In this case there was support and expectations.

In state schooling today, there are low expectations and low parental support. What chance does the child have? If the parents support, the school targets are so low that they get into the habit of idling. If they don't have support at home, school does not provide it as they're too busy filling in forms to say how bad the children are to actually do intensive support teaching. Especially in the first 3 years which is where it is needed most.

Mrs S used to bemoan the fact that by the time she got hold of children, in their fifth or sixth years, there was little she could do for the near illiterate. Yet she worked extremely hard with many of these children and often saw stunning return for her work. No forms, no checkboxes, just good old fashioned intensive teaching and support.

Think tanks have no clue, many parents have no clue. Today there is a market for mass private schooling which has standards, expectations and good teachers. Schools devolved from the national curriculum and the paper chasing it engenders. Results is all that is needed. If they want to remain in a job, they need to teach kids and get them through exams with good marks.

The State system? The eventual result, on the current path, is never more sure. Poor education for poor kids with no hope. Warehousing for children who might actually have found an apprenticeship which would have given them a life and a hope....

But, no, we get think tanks, school till you are 18, forced to resit English and Maths, regardless of aptitude. I know what I would have done. Two more years on holiday from work. Work for my exams? You are forcing me to be here, but you can't make me work, be interested or pass exams. I doubt that my opinion is totally exclusive...

[KateLMead]

My youngest Grandchildren are lucky, the school they attend in Wolverhampton is excellent. (apart from the silly graduation do's every year!!!)
As for how to use eating utensils.. I have been shocked at the number of adults appearing on programmes like Come Dine With Me and other cooking channels who don't know how to use let alone hold a and and fork correctly..

[Rodo]

Yes you have a point there Kate. It's one of my favourite pastimes when we eat out watching how the adults handle their cutlery.

Going back a few years, I spent many of my lunch hours in the dining hall trying to teach children how to use a knife and fork, and also that they shouldn't throw food on the floor if they didn't want it! Our school was in an area with about 90% of children from professional and well placed homes, not poor areas.

[KateLMead]

It was a nightmare when my daughters brought teenage friends home to dine.. My late darling husband was a stickler for good manners, table manners etc.. On many occasion to my embarrassment his steely eyes would focus on the offender as they juggled their knives and forks and our youngsters would beseechingly look at him imploring him to remain silent...