Syria

[Workingman]

Oh dear, I bet it was the Daily Mail claiming an "exclusive" for news that came out weeks ago!

Britain sold Syria.................sodium fluoride.

You know the stuff. It's so deadly that the water companies put in our water and Proctor and Gamble and Lever Bros. put in our toothpaste to prevent cavities. It is used in mouthwashes and breath fresheners as well as a general cleaning agent. It is also used in making paper and glass as well as in many engineering processes.

It follows, therefore, that it must have been sent to Syria for the express purpose of manufacturing Sarin to gas the population with.

[Suff]

This will be long too. I’m irritated. Been busy all weekend so my irritation is probably worse.

Is it only me?

Do I walk such a different path?

No influence in world affairs? US said bomb, Russia said no, China said no, the rest of the word, except for France said NO and the US wheels started in motion.

Then the UK government, driven, no doubt, by public outrage to accessible MP's, voted NO.

What happened? Did we get ignored? Did the all mighty and all powerful US ignore the little gnat of the UK and carry on?

Well that's what the politicians and the press would like to have you believe. Yet, in fact, single handedly the UK stopped the US rhetoric in it's tracks. Forced them to go to government, made them stop, gave the UN time to come back with it's report. In fact the UK had the most powerful stance of all. That of removing US legitimacy for the strike.

Also, given the UK government vote, that meant that the US only had two out of the five permanent seats on the UN security council with the veto. Oh did the press and the UK parlimentarians forget. WE HAVE A VETO TOO AT THAT TABLE. The UK is a large and very potent force in the world. The #4 military power out of 184. Yes that was NUMBER FOUR IN THE WORLD. Do you think our politicians got that or should I shout a bit larger???

You don't need to fight wars to wield power. There was a time when the UK knew that very well. Why did we forget it? Time was that the UK could force people to the negotiating table by using the power and influence our economy and military might has. This has not gone away. Nobody having been bitten by British military power will forget it. It is only when our military is used as a police force that it get's it's proverbial kicked. but then so does every other military.

Obama thought he could "go it alone" and take the UK with him. With the UK he could have forced a consensus on the UN security council. Even if he had bombed Assad into submission and found out later that “Ooops” Assad had all his stocks, accounted for and unused, he could have bluffed it out with UK support and held the rest to ransom.

Without the UK he became a warmongering capitalist aggressor. He has to go to congress now. He has to get total democratic legitimacy from both houses, or he will be deemed to be a military dictatorship in the eyes of some democratic countries.

The UK, proving Russia’s point, has allowed time for Russia to send its ships in through the Bosphorus and the legitimacy to use them to defend Assad, should the US try to attack unilaterally.

I believe that Cameron has accepted the inevitable and now will go through with the democratic process to the end. Including allowing the UN inspectors to complete their report and allow the UN security council to come to a resolution. Then he will stand with that resolution. In time, I believe, he will come to see this setback as one of the closest escapes any UK politician has had since WWII.

The fact that I also happen to believe that the US only has solid evidence of the perpetrators of the chemical weapons attack because they “facilitated” it, is beside the point.

It is long overdue for the general people of the UK to wake up and realise that the #7 economy in the world and the #4 military power in the wold is NOT anybody’s poodle and time we started acting like it!

[Workingman]

Is it only me?

Absolutely not!

The people of the UK, through Parliament, put the brakes on a definite US attack on Syria a few weekends back. Had it not been for us we would now be in the second week of God-knows-what. I call that influential.

Obama's red line, "his" red line, suddenly became the US's red line. It has now morphed into a global red line. Rather than just taking an executive decision to attack Syria, Obama is having to persuade others, including his own Congress and Senate, that a red line exists. WE made all this happen.

However, we are still trying to be persuaded that we were wrong. The BBC is at the forefront of this with its endless articles and coverage of the American side of the argument. Frank Gardner, probaly one of the best defence reporters, has barely touched on the Russian position, though he did mention their prescence in Syria in passing. We have not had a peep out of Lyse Doucet or Jeremy Bowen on that score. Tim Marshall and Sam Kiley on Sky have been a bit more even handed, but not much.

Only Digby Jones, of all the commentators, has so far mentioned the Russian need for a warm water port in the Med as a driving factor in Putin's position....... his point was quietly given a body swerve by the rest of the panel. Maybe the news that elements of the Russian navy have set sail for Tartus will start to wake them up. Thing is, they won't find the news in the Western media, they'll have to go look elsewhere.

[Suff]

Now they're saying that if Assad hands over his weapons stocks, they'll "Let him off" without attacking him.

A compromise made in hell. Who certifies that the list is correct? If he has more than expected, will that mean they won't believe he doesn't have more?

If he has less than expected will they take this as absolute proof that he did attack his people?

This is not over yet. But it's gearing up to be a class one ClusterF@*k. US trying to save face, Russia grinding the US noses in it. UK, currently, holding the balance between the powers.... Alll the while millions more Syrians displaced or killed....

[Suff]

The press are the worst.

It occurs to me that someone, somewhere has it's hand up the puppet of the press and world governments. Which would explain why Cameron keeps getting bad press for not borrowing money to fix the UK economy. Someone wants him to. Eventually they had to give up when it became too embarrassing to keep lying about it in the face of solid data to the opposite.

So now the UK government isn't salivating once the button was pressed and the press/political pundits are at it again.

I'm wondering who has that much power.

Well I was until I heard of the US financial institutions with a $4Trillion valuation. That's larger than the GDP of any country but the top 3 in the world.

[Workingman]

I watched a series of documentaries about US - Russian relations down the years. Hilary Clinton claimed that her counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, was someone she could work with, but that he was also one of the cleverest politicians she had come across - he saw things others missed.

Yesterday was classic. In an apparent off-the-cuff remark...... and with excellent timing - though one obviously discussed with the Syrians - he pulled the rug from under the feet of Kerry and Obama. They might not have fallen, but they were left mighty unstable.

Everyone is now playing catch up. The US welcomes the idea but is cautious and remains sceptical. The French are about to table almost the exact same idea as a motion at the ineffective UN.

Meanwhile the Russians and Syrians are already in talks to turn the idea into a concrete plan. I wonder if that deal will include a few more refurbished Russian tanks and helicopters and state of the art SAM batteries.

[cromwell]

The press are the worst.

It occurs to me that someone, somewhere has it's hand up the puppet of the press and world governments.

I've wondered that for years. Because some of what has gone on world wide is beyond coincidence.

[KateLMead]

All very worrying. Whatever Cameron does he cannot win, we see him being humiliated in the eyes of the world..Roquel Rolnick and her outrageous attack lecturing us as a nation, the woman came over as mad as a hatter listening to her outburst. We are certainly in my opinion in trouble inspite of our standing and recovering economy, we need to get our house in order, stem the influx of immigrants, bring all those who come to this country to order. Making it clear that they
Are in England, not Somalia, Pakistan,Africa, Romania, Bulgaria and all the other nations that they have escaped from to come to the Land of Milk and Honey, leaving the indigenous the minority in our own country in areas our schools , the NHS,Housing and Benefits. as said we need to get our house in order and regain the esteem we once held world wide. I am pleased to read that Iran is holding out an olive branch.

[KateLMead]

Sorry to continue. I have just seen the picture of little children being forced to watch the execution of one of Assads fighters. I saw children being taken past individuals hung on lamp posts in Baghdad when Saddam's was in power.
No one can describe this barbaric act forcing little ones to witness the head being chopped off of an individual, poor poor children who will be affected by this shocking act, they will be traumatised for life. Mans inhumanity to man does not describe these barbaric acts it is almost that insanity has taken over.

[Kaz]

Dear god, they must have been terrified