Roll up! Get your free Lottery ticket here..

[TheOstrich]

People don't vote because they think it does not matter, they just get the same old same old.

People need to realise that they get what they vote for. If they don't vote. Or are not willing to vote for radical measures, then they will get the same old regurgitated pap from every party in power.

I know it's a tired old argument which I trot out everytime we have a discussion on this topic, but unless you reform the voting system away from first past the post, many people like me will remain apathetic to the issue because their vote counts for nothing.

I am in "PC Pleb" Mitchell's constituency. A Tory has been elected here since the world began, and will continue to be until Armaggedon. The same goes for the three local councillors. I have never conciously voted for any of these elected representatives; I've voted Independant and for minor parties. So for 11 years, I've wasted my breath voting, the exercise has counted for nothing and will continue to count for nothing - I do not feel in any way franchised. So can you blame people if they cannot be ar*ed to vote? Of late, that's been my stance.

Another thing - when there's an election, do we have proper hustings here in Plebgate Land? No, of course we don't! Political interaction is reserved entirely for the small number of swing seats elsewhere in the country. No meetings, excitement or egg-throwing here in any shape or form.

I think it's fair to say that the last time I cast a vote in a Parliamentary election which actually meant anything was when I helped vote in Paddy Pantsdown against the Tories in Yeovil in 1983.

Now, that said, we have proportional representation in the European Elections. It ain't perfect, but at least one can feel that one's vote is in a small way meaningful.

When they threw out Cleggy's bid for electoral reform recently, they missed a trick which might just have helped forge a reconnection between Parliament and electorate.

[cromwell]

When they threw out Cleggy's bid for electoral reform recently, they missed a trick which might just have helped forge a reconnection between Parliament and electorate.

I honesty don't think politicians care if there is a reconnection between them and the electorate. The way they see it, they are the ruling elite, and we are the ruled.
That's it.

[Suff]

I'm not sure you see the reality of the voting reform Ossie.

Scotland has had hybrid PR in the MSP elections since they began. What happened, in effect, was that the results returned a Lib lab coalition. Until the Labour idiots pushed things so far that even the staunch Labour voters in Scotland simply could not take any more.

The result of that massive revolt in the voters was a minority government for SNP. A very savvy move for Salmond and one Cameron should have thought about before jumping into bed with the Lib Dems. Salmond worked out there was enough floating votes to make his minority government viable. He was rewarded, at the height of the Blair/Brown hatred, with a VERY slim working majority government.

So under PR, the kind of dissatisfaction which would just about produce open rebellion and riots on the streets, produced a very slim working majority for a hybrid PR electoral system.

This is what goes on all over Europe right now. Greece, Italy, Sweden with it's Grand coalition of many parties.

It may seem like enfranchising the people, but, in fact, it tends to have the opposite effect.

[Workingman]

Democracy is a chimera unless close to 100% of the electorate vote.

FPTP, when those voting are only ~60%, often produces bizarre results where the "winner" often gets far fewer votes than those against him/her.

PR fails at the constituency level for similar reasons, and one round of voting rarely produces a result unless some sort of convoluted second, third, choice knock out takes place - multiple choice voting.

The only way for either to work is for all the votes to be thrown in the hat and for the pseudo-link between votes and constituencies broken. That will not happen.

The problem for us and the politicians is that most us do not care enough to vote, and not even gimmicks will solve that problem - not even Lottery tickets.

And reducing the number of MPs to 300 wouldn't be such a bad idea.

[TheOstrich]

So under PR, the kind of dissatisfaction which would just about produce open rebellion and riots on the streets, produced a very slim working majority for a hybrid PR electoral system..

In my humble opinion, in that single line, you've just destroyed the thrust of your own argument, Suff.

Mass dissatisfaction with the LibLab status quo - and the electoral system in Scotland returned a working majority for the SNP. See that happening in England with first past the post? Not a chance. We will merely continue to oscillate between Tory and Labour for ever and a day.

The only way for either to work is for all the votes to be thrown in the hat and for the pseudo-link between votes and constituencies broken.

Precisely this. As I've already pointed out, constituencies are far too tribal. If you're not in the tribe, your vote in a waste of time. So we need to ditch the whole concept of constituencies and work on regional voting.

OK, if that means forging working coalitions, fine. Personally, I'd welcome a coalition with a UKIP influence.

Until there is serious electoral reform in this country, I, for one, simply can't be bothered to waste my time voting in the constituency that (doesn't) "represent" me

[Suff]

[In my humble opinion, in that single line, you've just destroyed the thrust of your own argument, Suff.

But not in mine Ossie, but we can agree to disagree if you want. In my opinion PR dissolves the protest vote. So that a sea change in the views of the electorate does not create a sea change in government, unless it is at the level of near revolution. People who I have spoken to that vote under PR are disillusioned with the voting system as they cannot make any headway on change. In the end, after decades and decades of the same, they tend to vote for exceptionally extreme measures which are not in the best interests of the people.

PR produces coalitions, time after time after time after time. At least this is how I've seen it working. Coalitions also do stupid things because they don't actually feel the ire of the voters very often.

if we're going to change the voting system, then make it like the French Presidential one. Two rounds. First round we vote with our wishes. Only the top two contenders go forward. Then we vote with our heads and throw out the idiots.....

Now THAT would really rock British politics. Although it would make the elections longer. At least it would mean that the people know who they are really voting for after the first round and there would be less surprises like a three way split and letting in someone you don't want in a 3 way split vote.

Of course, my own personal wish, would be that the Scots vote Yes to leave the Union and the Labour Party is dealt a death blow for a few decades. But that's just me.