Did Russia just go one step too far?

[Suff]

The S-300 series is almost as good as our best alternatives.

We need to stop kidding ourselves that we have the best of the best and the Russian stuff is crap. It is simply not true.

They don't have to be the very "best", they need to be capable, available, defensible and much further east. Ukraine is not going to get S300 or S400 from Russia or, probably, anyone else. They can get THAAD and the latest Patriot if we choose to send them.

BTW there seems to be evidence that S300 have been modified and repurposed to go ground to ground in Russian strikes.

[Workingman]

The S-300 is very capable and Ukraine is, apparently, getting them from Checkia, Hungary and Slovakia.

THAAD brings down high altitude ballistic missiles... not low-level cruise jobs as used by Russia.

Patriots are not cheap. If they had been used in the latest Russian attacks the cost would be $270 million. That's not sustainable day after day.

[Suff]

Not for Russia anyway.

[Workingman]

Nor for us.

I can tell you, from personal experience, that Patriots are not infallible.

During Dessert Storm I lived under a Patriot dome in Al Khobar, S.A. One day an Iraqi SCUD side-stepped the Patriots and exploded in an American compound about half a mile away, killing 27 personnel. It was one of seven that smashed through the dome - two hit the air base, two hit Aramco and two hit the Dharan bay.

Let's not pretend that there are any guarantees of absolutes safety and security in war. No matter how good our kit is compared to theirs, there will always be a few that get through.

It's time to calm down, which, thankfully, looks like happening.

[Suff]

No missile system is infallible and can be defeated by sufficient volume of dumb attacking force. As was found with HMS Sheffield, they simply fired more missiles at Sheffield than Sheffield contained anti missiles. With a predictable result.

I just want this war over. Given that Putin is never going to stop until he wins, he has to lose. Given that Russia is still a superpower, the only way Ukraine will win is with the resources to defeat Russia.

I want them to get those resources.

[cromwell]

It's time to calm down, which, thankfully, looks like happening.

Let's hope so.
I get the impression that Biden and a lot of the European countries want this ended now.

[Workingman]

Given that Putin is never going to stop until he wins, he has to lose. Given that Russia is still a superpower...

So, how do we square that circle?

He has nukes and, apparently, the will to use them.

Stalemate?

BTW only two Exocets were used against HMS Sheffield and only one of them hit. It was not a barrage of dumb attacks, it was targeted. The Argentinian Super Etenards knew what they were after, and got it.

[Suff]

Interesting. Literally not the news I got from inside the service when it went down.

But the premise of lots of dumb weapons is not unfounded. Worked for Stalin at Moscow to drive the Germans out and for the Zulu's too.

Anyway, Putin is losing right now and still has not gone nuclear. His window for that opportunity is closing. So why should we not assist in driving him out? We did it in Afghanistan and the supreme soviet, at the time, had more power than Putin does.

[Workingman]

UK HMS Sheffield inquiry - go have a read.

This is C21st Russia. The lead rat is up against the wall. It does not need a window, it can, and will, bite. What is it about that you Hawks do not understand?

We need to calm it down... and maybe talk?

[Suff]

Calm down in the middle of a war of aggression?

Would we if it were In our country?