Lawlessness

[cromwell]

I have felt for a long time now that as a deterrent, we should either have no-parole life imprisonment (or simply reinstate the death penalty) for horrific crimes like this and the one in Liverpool; my views are unlikely to change.

I agree Os.

Last night on the local news they had film of two drug gangs fighting with machetes and samurai swords in broad daylight in the Harehills district of Leeds.

[Kaz]

Life with no parole would suit me fine - I just can't get my head around the death penalty - but the current "life" sentences are a joke

[Suff]

Life with no parole would suit me fine - I just can't get my head around the death penalty - but the current "life" sentences are a joke

For me that's a yes/no thing Kaz. First we carry the cost for the rest of their life. What if they're a 21 year old gang leader that has deliberately murdered 10 people and intends to murder more? We hold them for, maybe, 80 years?

Second we can never be sure that some government won't decide that they have been "rehabilitated" and just let them out to carry on.

Third, all of our laws and "protections" mean they have to live with at least some comfort, facilities and balanced food for the rest of their life. This is supposed to be a deterrent to that kind of murder? What is the consequence of just going around murdering people? A restricted life which is of moderate comfort? OK they don't get company from the other sex and they can't just come and go as they want. But they're alive and not on some chain gang being whipped into work.

In the end we have to think deterrent. What is the deterrent. Life in jail without parole or death for dealing out death? I'd like an alternative to being as bad as they are. But it does have to be seen as something they "really" want to avoid. Like dying.

It is a hard choice. My sympathy and view is always for the victims. Not for the aggressors.

[Kaz]

The slight chance of a miscarriage of justice is enough for me. Innocent people have been executed before, and I am quite sure there are innocent people who have been convicted of lesser crimes. The system is not infallible.

A whole life sentence is enough, and more civilised IMHO

[cromwell]

When the death penalty was abolished Kaz, wasn't that what we were promised, that life would mean life.

[Kaz]

I should imagine so, and that’s how it should be.

[Suff]

The slight chance of a miscarriage of justice is enough for me.

It is also enough for me to want it for only the most serious circumstances and also in cases where the evidence is so overwhelming that there can be no doubt as to the guilt. Which also means very little room for appeal and delay.

I know it brings us down to their level. But, again, it is something they can understand and want to avoid. That's the part for me which drives me to a terminal solution. That it is understood as a deterrent and that those who might want to murder make that decision even under the threat of loss of life. That is something worth considering. Because if they are willing to murder and risk their own life, then just how much mayhem are they willing to carry out when there is only a relatively comfortable cell waiting for them.

It is not an easy call. But the ones that matter never are.

[Suff]

When the death penalty was abolished Kaz, wasn't that what we were promised, that life would mean life.

My point about "later politicians" and what they may or may not do.

[Workingman]

There is no correct answer to this thorny problem so it will run and run.

I could go with the death penalty in cases where there is absolutely no chance of a miscarriage of justice - but that would be expensive with appeals and so on.

However, for murder life should mean life and with no parole. And the jails, murderers only, must be the bleakest of places where nobody would ever want to go. On humanitarian grounds I would offer the inmates the chance to be euthanised, at their discretion, and after counselling.

[Suff]

On humanitarian grounds I would offer the inmates the chance to be euthanised, at their discretion, and after counselling.

Ah, you just fell foul of the "life at any cost" argument....

I'm more a proponent of "involuntary euthanasia" club for the kind of murder we are talking about.