Headlines and subliminal messaging

[Suff]

If you recall WM, I said no to no fly zones too. It is a nice sound byte for the press and politicians but not practical in the situation.

I'm all for dialogue but there needs to be a common point to talk about. At this time there is no common point. Russia wants part of Ukraine and intends to take it by force, Ukraine wants Russia gone and has no intention of giving them 1cm of ground.

Until this changes there is nothing to talk about and all talk will do is set false expectations.

People are going to die until one of these attitudes changes. It just so happens that I'm with the Ukrainians, spending their lives to keep and protect their own country and freedom is worth it and it can go on as long as it needs to.

I am not with Russia who believe if they just spend enough lives and enough shock and power, they can take what they want.

To me the only things to talk about are how quickly Russia will leave both Ukraine and Crimea and also how much this aggression will cost them

For me there is no other route than this; or the total collapse of Ukraine as Russia intended in the first place. Because any other solution simply bake in endless conflict and lost innocent lives.

My signature below is from the book starship troopers (not that bloody awful. Film). Here is another quote from it.

Anyone who clings to the historically untrue—and thoroughly immoral—doctrine that ‘violence never settles anything’ I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and of the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms.

[Workingman]

To me the only things to talk about are how quickly Russia will leave both Ukraine and Crimea and also how much this aggression will cost them.

So how will you enforce that...? it will have to be by force, btw. Brian, Kev and Arabella in their grey underwear and empty tins of Special Brew are right behind you! Good luck

Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms.

And that is where pragmatism kicks in. Russia now holds lands that, rightly or wrongly, it sees as its own or those of its allies. For the past three decades Ukraine has not 'ruled' these lands in the Donbas, Crimea and other south eastern oblasts in the normal sense. It has been waging a separatist internal war for them. They are largely ethnically Russian and many inhabitants want to be independent - of Ukraine but also of Russia.

I am not for a second saying that it is right, just wondering how their self-determination can be achieved. A new "Kosovo" perhaps?

[Suff]

I am not for a second saying that it is right, just wondering how their self-determination can be achieved. A new "Kosovo" perhaps?

I don't know but Zelensky has just reiterated that they will only "negotiate" from a position of strength. The G7 is moving towards putting a cap on the price paid for Russian oil and Gas and more viable defensive weapons are in the pipeline to break the Russian ability to attack at will.

Nothing to stop the conflict. Just more of the same until someone breaks.