The start of the endgame?

[Workingman]

We have been collating the stats the same way throughout yet recently this new narrative has emerged. I suppose it fits an agenda somewhere.

Not that it matters. We are not going to change things, and the dead remain dead.

For me the important stat is the excess deaths during the pandemic compared to a five year period before. It is about at the level of the Covid certified deaths, but hey-ho.

[Suff]

Yes but they are not Covid "certified" deaths.

Because there are no stats for Covid as the primary cause of death. Just either died within 28 days or Covid was "one of the causes of death".

This has been an ongoing thread for nearly a year now when the UK "discovered" that once you had been diagnosed with Covid you were a covid death no matter what you died of.

Serious cases down to 675 today.

One wonders what happens when they hit zero. How can you report a "covid death" when nobody is seriously ill with it?

Meanwhile France is doing 5m tests a day. France also has nearly half a million new cases a day. Deaths are also up. But not that much.

This is what it looks like when you decide to suddenly do 5m tests a day. I'm sure you can see the pattern.

[Workingman]

No, they are 'additional' deaths over and above the five year norm without Covid deaths, no matter how recorded. It is not difficult to comprehend.

'If / when' is not an ongoing issue in the mainstream it is just that some of you 'activists' have chosen to highlight it, most of us couldn't care less. Mum died, she is dead.

Cases down, on one day, wow(!), deaths 330. I bet their families and friends are so comforted. Only a few weeks ago 200 of them would have survived.

France? Who cares, we are in the sovereign, blue passport, Brekshit UK, with Bojo in charge.

[Suff]

I see.

Decide on how it is, pull the walls in, ignore everywhere else and expect that as the numbers stay up things are not going to change. Because people are dying.

I'm going to say this, just once more. 330 people did NOT die of Covid.

Yes, 330 people died. 330 people who detected positive for Covid within the last 28 days.

That is NOT the same as 330 people died of covid. You know it, I know it and anyone else who can count and add two and two knows it.

From today's government dashboard.

[Workingman]

I know that 330 died. They are dead. Some of them were killed by Covid. Some of them died because Covid screwed their system up. It played its part. They are still dead.

You and the 'of' / 'with' crowd have suddenly sprung up out of nowhere to muddy the waters, Pathetic.

[miasmum]

errrr just sticking my head above the parapet to say quietly the with/of brigade have been around for a long long time. I have always been part of them.

Just saying and now creeping away before I get insulted too

[cromwell]

Questions have been asked for a while.
It's going to be some job trying to get reliable stats out of the information recorded.

[Suff]

Which is what I am saying.

The decisions on learning to live with this, as we do with flu, will not be made by the 28 day window, it will be made by the volume of cases which are directly resulting in hospital admissions and becoming serious and leading to death.

Right now all those indicators are significantly down from the peak of the Omicron wave and apart from cases, which are also falling, but still above prior waves, the numbers of deaths and serious cases are well down from prior waves.

As such I expect that the covid emergency laws will not be renewed in March.

This is a combination of data proving that covid is becoming endemic and a government desperately searching for good news.

I have said this many times before but it bears repeating. The flu epidemic of the millennium killed roughly 65,000 people. No restrictions were applied to that epidemic and that was just one half of a year. Had we been tracking that like covid the toll would have been much higher.

They were all dead too but we saw no reason to lock the country up and control the people with laws.

Hence time to get back to normal.

[Workingman]

Just saying and now creeping away before I get insulted too

Who has been insulted, and by whom?

Cromwell, by a minority, but lately the movement has gained traction for some reason. As I have tried to explain, the deaths have to be recorded in some way. The 28 day thing was probably used because it is easy for the general public to understand. It's a rolling programme, day on day. It is probably not the best way to record things but it is a simple one-shot number.

Yes, we could have multiple charts, graphs and tables for every death of every description but nobody would take any notice of them. We are not all master statisticians.

Suff, deaths are on a similar trajectory to the ripple that started the second (third?) wave. They were generally flat from the end of August but they are now rising again.

Easing restrictions is possibly the right thing to do given Omicron, boosters, immunity, but we still need caution. I hope that observation is not insulting anybody.

The flu epidemic of the millennium killed roughly 65,000 people.

Rubbish. Very high levels of flu were seen in 1999/00, when there were 48,000 excess winter deaths, not all of them flu. ONS report. On average flu deaths are between 10,000 and 25,000 - December to February.

[miasmum]

Who has been insulted? Maybe I am a delicate flower but I find this comment insulting.....


You and the 'of' / 'with' crowd have suddenly sprung up out of nowhere to muddy the waters, Pathetic

but maybe I am just sensitive

My friends mum was admitted to hospital with COPD. She also had diabetes and was obese. She was tested for covid, negative, so discharged to a care home. She had to isolate for 10 days and was tested daily. On the tenth day, the day she was due to come out of isolation, she tested positive. She was taken into hospital on a covid ward, but never really got very poorly, but she got very depressed and slowly deteriorated. After 3 weeks she passed away. She hadn't tested positive for over a fortnight but guess what was on her death certificate as primary cause of death? Yes covid.

My friend queried it and they said the covid had weaken her immune system