Andrew.

[Suff]

Sorry that was in response to Crommers. Not about the Queen.

She doesn't interfere as such. But then it's never come down to her favourite child has it.

[miasmum]

She recruited young girls herself on behalf of Maxwell and Epstein

Not defending PA but have very little sympathy for her either

[Workingman]

Ghislaine Maxwell is a little rich girl and criminal who was using her 'business' contacts to traffic young girls to her 'social' contacts from Epstein's diary. She is going to jail.

Andrew? He was in the game...

[miasmum]

I know who Maxwell is. I was talking about Guiffre

[Workingman]

I thought that you were talking about Maxwell, I cannot find anything about Giuffre as per your claim - a link?

[medsec222]

I know you can't believe everything you read in the press but again I read that Virginia Giuffre herself recruited younger girls on behalf of Maxwell but she has since said she regretted this, although she feels that it doesn't absolve Prince Andrew. It seems they may have targeted even younger girls coming from struggling backgrounds. Another newspaper article reports a friend of Virginia Giuffre as saying Giuffre had boasted about sleeping with Prince Andrew. If it goes it trial there will be plenty more unsavoury facts to emerge.

[Suff]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Giuffre

It makes interesting reading. Apparently she trafficked a 14 year old who gave evidence at Epstein's trial.

I was wondering why there was no case in the UK, aside from the Royal angle.

The reason there will never be a case in the UK is because he broke no UK laws. She was over the age of UK consent when the all the alleged incidents happened.

Guiffre was born in California and the US incident was alleged to have taken place in Florida. Both states have an age of consent of 18. Hence the court cases.

Even if the police had broken down the door in London and found, as alleged, Guiffre with Andrew, they could have done nothing.

Whether he knew she was trafficked? We will never know.

Andrew was an idiot who should have known better and has a singular lack of moral fibre. But had he done this to a UK citizen none of this would be in the courts because it is impossible to prove that he knew what Epstein was doing.

At best the reaction to this is moral outrage, at worst an insidious attack on the Royal family.

Just to remind you, I have 3 daughters and I am NOT defending him. But I also want it to be real and not hype.

He has no right to break laws in other countries and should be punished for that. He also has an obligation to know the laws of the countries he is in. But to treat a legal liaison, in the UK, albeit one lacking in a lot of taste and morality, as some kind of child abuse, is stretching reality to the bounds.

[cromwell]

I think Guiffre is dodgy too, especially as she has had $500,000 out of Epstein back in 2009(?).
But it makes little difference. Andrew was consorting with Epstein, a vile character, a convicted rapist who videotaped his guests having sex with underage girls via hidden cameras.
There is a lot of truth in the old sayings. One of which is that a man is known by the company he keeps, and another that if you swim in a mucky pond you will get dirty.

[Workingman]

I am sat here wondering why, if he did nothing wrong, the Royal formerly known as "Prince" has given up his Royal Patronages, military titles and the prefix HRH.

[Suff]

Apart from the fact that Epstein was "trafficking" girls and we don't know if Andrew knew, under British law, he did nothing "legally" wrong.

Morally? That's an entirely different question.

The Royal family is all about being above board and morally correct. He is losing all of that because nobody believes he wasn't being sleazy. He's been judged by the press, judged by the people, found Guilty in the absence of his ability to defend himself against the press and the "perception" of the people, driven by the press and so has lost it all.

Oh he had sex with her. Certainly. That's why he has lost it all. That's not "the done thing" even if it is legal in the UK.

The fact that he broke US law, that's a different matter. But factor this in.

1. The US legal system is not after him for breaking US law by a few months.
2. She is taking out a Private prosecution even though she made a legal commitment not to after having squeezed Epstein for $half a million.
3. She, herself, trafficked 14 year olds to Epstein

I told you, I'm not defending what he did. I'm just calling out all those who want to turn him into a paedophile monster when he actually didn't break UK law.

All that is lost in the absolute GLEE in the press and the monarchy haters.

It is very inconvenient but it is a fact. Andrew deserves to lose his status because he's a dick who couldn't say no to that kind of temptation. He also deserves to be prosecuted by the US government for the times he broke US law. Notably he is not being so prosecuted.

So please stop telling me that you think I'm saying Andrew did nothing wrong. He did, under US law and what he did was morally reprehensible and that is unforgiveable in a person with his status.

Let's get it right and stop crowing.