The cost of living.

[Suff]

Heat pumps are going to bring their own problems, not least paying for them.

In Argentina heating systems are old, expensive and cost a fortune to install. Conversely and at relative prices, aircon units are modern, cheap(er) and plenty of installation engineers.

It is about demand and supply, the Argentinian climate drives demand for aircon.

As demand ramps, supply will rise and costs will fall.

As for the Russian gas situation? None so blind and all that.

[Workingman]

How do you build a heat pump when you are on the tenth florr of a block of flats with no garden?

They can put them on the outside wall Cruiser, mind you servicing them might be a bit tricky!

There are something like 7,000 tower blocks in the UK. Let's say there is an average of 75 units in each block that's 525,000 units. Most of the flats I have visited down the years - family and friends and myself - have either had electric heating or some sort of communal heating system. That's some lucrative retro-fit contract to fulfil. Then there are the terraced houses and the chocolate box villages with row upon row of stone cottages fronting on to the street.

And let's not forget that heat pumps run on electricity some 45% of which is generated by gas in any given year. It is not just gas bills that will be going up. And whether we have one or not ALL of us will be paying the bribes being offered to those that do.

If heat pumps were such a good idea there would be queues of people with wads of cash in their hands stretching round the block in order to get one. It's not happening.

Same as the aircon units you see on huge blocks of flats all over the world. Similar technology, different application.

Except that air-con units blow cold air directly into a room or space. Heat pumps require a closed loop water system with either underfloor piping or radiators. And nobody knows the structural implications of drilling many big holes in the walls of tower blocks in order to get the "heat" in.

[Suff]

An air source heat pump (ASHP) is a reversible heat pump which uses the outside air as a heat source when in heating mode, or as a heat sink when in cooling mode using the same vapor-compression refrigeration process and same external heat exchanger with a fan as used by air conditioners.


Air-to-air heat pumps are simpler devices and provide hot or cold air directly to the one or two internal spaces. By contrast, air-to-water heat pumps use radiators and / or underfloor heating to heat or cool a whole house and are often also used to provide domestic hot water. When correctly specified, an ASHP can offer a full central heating solution and domestic hot water up to 80 °C (176 °F).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_source_heat_pump

My Uncle has one. He was a very early adopter and it was both expensive and finicky to set up. But his goal was to avoid gas.

He achieved that and his CH works acceptably and at a comparable cost. It burns more power in deep winter, but so does Gas.

[Workingman]

You uncle lives in a house with a garden I take it.

We are talking tower blocks and an air-to-air heating system would require multiple units per flat. Air-to-water, you make it all seem so very simple. "We'll just dig these holes in the walls, bolt all these units to the outside of the flats, turn them on, job's a gud 'un."

I am no structural engineer but I think you will find that the actual work is somewhat more complicated, expensive and time consuming.

A more practical solution for tower blocks might (possibly) be a communal ground source heating system with deep boreholes and small pumps and a traditional(ish) radiator system in each flat. However, we would be looking at a cost of £billions to do all the blocks.

[Suff]

Air to water connects to your CH. Bolt the unit to the wall, 1 cable, two pipes redirected from the existing boiler.

Doesn't sound too challenging.

Whilst my Uncle does have "ground" around the house, he is restricted to how he uses it. The unit is attached to the cabin just like a high rise would be.

Yes there is a height issue, but then they manage to get Huge aircon units way up high rises in Asia.

This is not rocket science.

[Workingman]

Asia aircon.

A. They are not huge, they are the size of an old combi microwave and cool one space.

B. They take out a window, put in an aircon frame, put in the aircon unit and install a new window underneath. Little structural stress to the building. And their refrigerants, to make them work, are not exactly 'Green' or safe. Heat pumps work the the same way, just in reverse.

C. They only work on one room / space. More rooms = more units. Lived in one for years. Each has its own electricity supply. Air-to-air heat pumps would be the same

D. Most UK flats do not have CH systems as found in houses, a new piping and radiator refurb is essential, and they have solid floors so out go the underfloor heating systems. Any conversion, per flat, is a lot more than two pipes and a bolt on HP - and expensive. Will the landlord pay?

You're right, it's not rocket science, it's practicality. Put the glossy brochures down and think.

[cromwell]

One thing came to mind today.
Council houses, or I suppose housing association houses th these days. How much money is it going to cost to upgrade all of these properties with a heat pump?

[Workingman]

£ billions for those that can have heat pumps, and guess what, we all pay via the 'bribes' (incentives) regardless if we can have one or not.

Cracking idea, isn't it? Oh to be a Tory donor with a retro-fit 'company' what! Now where's the back of the fag packet for my next policy?

[Workingman]

And guess what, producing all these HPs and systems, their materials and manufacture, will be ever so green and carbon free. They will use 100% recycled steel, copper and plastic using Angel's breath, Unicorn poo and net-zero magic to do so.

But it will all be done somewhere else because we do not have the manufacturing means to do it in the UK, so it's another greenwash winner.

[cromwell]

Not really on topic but I found out the other day that we are importing bricks from India. Bricks??
Apparently it's down to the cost of energy. You need lots of cheap energy to produce bricks apparently. Same with steel, I knew that, but if we've gone as far as having to buy bricks from India then I'm a bit don't know what to say!