Jabbing 5-12 year olds

[Suff]

And the evidence against this is...?

We are in a pandemic. It is not nearly as bad as was once feared, but it is bad.

I just do not get this anti jabbing youngsters thing, We have been doing it for decades and it has not seen us off. In fact it's done us quite well.

This!

We have become used to vaccines taking a decade to come out, being tested for half of that time or more and for the potential for vaccines which are not good to be more harmful than beneficial.

Because vaccines for diseases like measles, a virus which damage tens to hundreds of lives, has the potential to damage thousands or millions of lives if the vaccine has an adverse reaction.

Hence the caution.

If you recall, there was a loud braying of "this is too fast, we don't know the harm these vaccines can do, it is to soon", at the approval for use.

Also, lest we forget, these vaccines are still only under interim approval with monthly scrutiny.

Whilst I do not believe them harmful in that way and whilst I believe the harm factor for Covid is upside down (potential damage to tens or hundreds against very real damage to thousands or millions), I get the fact that some people do have a memory longer than the morning news broadcast.

[Workingman]

In the early months of the pandemic global deaths were at 7,000 daily. Something had to be done, and the obvious choice was a vaccine. The search was on. It takes nearly a decade for one to be approved under normal conditions, but this was an emergency, so something had to give - expedite things or wait nine years. Not exactly a tough choice.

In historical times we have been dealing with vaccines for a couple of hundred years so we have a lot of background experience of how things generally work. In modern times the knowledge has increased exponentially. In very modern times the delays have been as much to do with legal, moral and commercial aspects as much as efficacy and safety.

For decades the UK has been regularly inoculating infant (babies). MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), for childhood diseases, is probably the best known, but we also have the 6-in-1 for diphtheria, tetanus, HIB, Hep-b, polio and whooping cough for general diseases. We also inoculate for Pneumonia, Rotavirus, Meningitis and TB (BCG) and yellow fever. There are many others registered for infant use, but only as necessary.

There is also the confusion with medicinal drugs (not vaccines) such as Lumiracoxib, Phenobarbitone, Ranitidine and Thalidomide. Many of them have been withdrawn or are severely restricted. They are totally different from vaccines, but the number of times I have seen Thalidomide used as and argument against vaccines is legend.

[Suff]

Thalidomide and the covid vaccines are worlds, apart. No excuse there.

I'm not supporting the anti vax as I believe that we should be vaccinating due to the risk profile of not.

However it is true that we have slipped from emergency release for adults to heading on for 5 year olds with no change in status from emergency release.

If you look at it that way, there is some legitimate cause for concern. I just don't believe it is a real risk. Especially for the astra vaccine which built on a 10 year released vaccine already.

[cromwell]

The Austrian government is preparing a law for "mandatory" Covid vaccination. Presumably they are calling it mandatory because it sounds better than compulsory.
The new German Chancellor also backs compulsory vaccination.
I wonder if we will ever go down that route?

[Suff]

'Think 150,000 cases a day and 2,000 a day dead. I think that would make vaccination compulsory.

Germany is a different story. They are a high compliance culture, they're also expected to "do the right thing" and if they don't, then the law comes down on them and they expect it. So Germany going for compulsory vaccinations is no big surprise when their numbers have skyrocketed. Germany was very pleased with themselves when they were "dealing with it" and the UK and Italy were struggling. But there is no hiding from Covid, there is no avoiding covid and there is no way, short of mandatory vaccination, that it is going to even begin to go away.

Germany is a country where the punishment for being caught doing over twice the legal speed limit is psychiatric counselling. Because, clearly, a German citizen who fails to comply so badly has a mental disorder.

Yesterday's figures for the UK were 51.5k new cases, 54 dead and 900 serious or critical. Worlds away from the above. You can be absolutely sure, though, that press and media are running a 24 hour constant watch on omicron cases to be the first to "shock horror" report an omicron death. Meanwhile new daily cases bounce between the 30,000's and the 50,000's, new daily deaths bounce between 50 and 180 and the number of serious cases bounce between 800 and 1,000.

Let's roll back to April 10th 2020. 7,845 new cases, 1,152 new deaths.

Or Jan 08 2021 with 67,794 new cases and 1,382 new deaths. Rolling forward to Jan 20 2021 with 1,824 new daily deaths but "only" 38,757 new cases.

I can't see compulsory vaccination without a return to figures much closer to spring 2020 or Winter/spring 2021. Something I don't see happening because, contrary to press and media hysteria, the vaccines work and the Government knows that without solid evidence showing the country descending into those kind of figures; people simply won't stand for it.

[Workingman]

The UK will not have compulsory vaccinations ... we are much too precious for that sort of malarkey.

We cannot even do mask wearing properly, as our roughy-toughy, rebel-rebel PM often shows by either not wearing one (COP26 / hospital visits) or wearing it under his nose during photo ops and interviews. He has plenty of mates in supermarket shoppers.

There will always be a hard corps of people who simply will not comply. It is the way some people are and we do not have the resources to make them comply.

[Suff]

Meanwhile I'll keep tracking Sweden. Who have a hardcore of Government who think all these "precautions" are a distraction from the real task of getting to herd immunity.

I booked my Booster for Wednesday 13th Dec today. Not an anti vaxxer. I can't go for a few beers yet until my new blood tests have been done.... So I'm not getting so much benefit of being able to move freely. I was at a twinning meeting on Saturday though.

Apparently I get Moderna next week. Seems that it works really well for AstraZ vaccinated people. Hopefully it will bring me to the point where I cannot catch Covid and I achieve my goal of being vaccinated so I can't catch it and pass it onto someone who is vulnerable.

[cromwell]

And as if by magic, Mr Johnson says we should "have a conversation" about mandatory (compulsory) jabs.
Welcome to dictatorship.
Anybody fancy holding down a crying child to inject it whilst it's parents scream in the background?
I don't.

This may sound an overly dramatic situation, but if vaccines were made mandatory, why wouldn't it happen?

[Suff]

This may sound an overly dramatic situation, but if vaccines were made mandatory, why wouldn't it happen?

You think it doesn't? You try refusing MMR in the UK. Borderline threats for social services to find out what is wrong with you and the background threat that the child might be removed because you are not a fit parent.

Crones in the family sorted that one. When challenged they slunk away and were never heard from again. But until that date they were increasingly aggressive about pushing MMR on my Grandkids.

Don't tell me the UK doesn't have compulsory vaccination. You just try refusing the "standard" ones for your kids. You will find that this is entirely untrue.

[cromwell]

The propaganda campaign to jab perfectly healthy children is starting. Perhaps it's the No. 10 Downing Street "nudge unit" in action?
There has been an item on the news this morning that children in the age group 5-11 have an infection rate three times higher.
OH MY GOD!
Inject them now! Why wait!
"Hundreds of thousands of clinically vulnerable five- to 11-year-olds are to be offered Covid vaccines for the first time, with some scientists calling for the programme to be extended to the whole age group before the new UK school term".

It all seems a long way from "We'll be all right when we've vaccinated the vulnerable elderly" doesn't it?

If you start Googling you will find that all over the world countries have done the same thing. They have injected the same age groups at round about the same time.
They have all pushed vaccine passports. They have virtually all had lockdowns.
It's almost as if it has been co-ordinated. And if that's a conspiracy theory, so be it. The conspiracy theorists have been proved right many times so far.