Deaths in Washington

[cromwell]

I suppose this is what happens when trust in politicians and the political system vanishes.
Trump's supporters believe right or wrong, that the election was rigged. They have no trust in the system.
When you add to that the fact that politics over there has become increasingly confrontational and hate filled and nasty, and media has abandoned any pretence of impartiality, maybe a violent confrontation was inevitable.
Some websites virtually predicted this.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjp48x/ ... -civil-war

https://independentaustralia.net/politi ... -war,14306

I wonder if political assassination will be on the cards too?

[Suff]

I wonder if political assassination will be on the cards too?

I suspect that this inauguration will have the heaviest Secret Service presence since the one following the Kennedy assassination.

It must be really tempting for the Trump true believers. Because if they get the whole inauguration, they get the president and vice elect plus the leaders of the house. In short Trump would remain president and they would have to have another election as there would be no possibility of forming a government of any kind.

Enough to keep people up at night worrying about it. I can think of half a dozen ways it could be achieved with a sufficiently organised group.

Given that Covid stops the crowds, etc, I would have the ceremony in the safest and most fortified, location I could find.

[Workingman]

The Independent article written last September is particularly prescient. In its last few paragraphs what it says could happen is happening.

Trump is now President In Name Only (PINO) but still very powerful, and dangerous.

The American military and other institutions are uniquely loyal the the C-in-C, whoever it is. Trump has already threatened to use them..... Until Biden raises his hand and takes the oath it is Trump, once the oath is taken it becomes Biden and the loyalty immediately switches.

Trump already looks to be becoming a rallying point, a figurehead, for various anti-gov groups. Not a leader, he doesn't have the skills, more a talking head: a puppet. Invisible ones will be calling the shots, possibly literally. When Biden becomes C-in-C he and his administration are going to have their work cut out. The dominoes are lined up and it only takes one to fall.

Can Biden be the healer? Lots of fingers will be being crossed.

[cromwell]

Joe Biden is pretty unimpressive imo. If you look on YouTube for Joe Biden's gaffes it isn't reassuring.

It's just that the language of politics has become far nastier and more hateful than it used to be.
Politics itself has become more confrontational as in "If you aren't on my side then obviously you are a (fill in the swear word).
Add in the loss of faith in the fairness of the electoral process and bingo, you are in a dangerous place.

[Workingman]

Add in the loss of faith in the fairness of the electoral process and bingo, you are in a dangerous place.

And in this digital age that will only get worse.

Voting via app or on some random console as you get your paper and some milk is what many people want and those things are wide open to fraud. Even turning up at a polling station and tapping in your vote on a screen, behind a curtain so it's secret , has its problems, as the Americans already know.

[TheOstrich]

Kudos to Mike Pence last night for putting the Constitution over and above Trump.

It's disturbing to see certain Republican politicians still standing behind Trump, though. That is one fractured political Party as well as Country.

[cromwell]

Voting via app or on some random console as you get your paper and some milk is what many people want and those things are wide open to fraud. Even turning up at a polling station and tapping in your vote on a screen, behind a curtain so it's secret , has its problems, as the Americans already know.

It is, yes.
We have already had trouble with a few cases of postal vote fraud in this country. The government isn't taking it as seriously as it should imo.
On-line voting, no. Widespread postal voting, no.

Enforce some form of voter id, vote at the polling station and guard the ballot boxes.
Old fashioned maybe but a lot more secure than electronic or postal voting.

[Suff]

This is the common conflict between government intrusion and technical capability.

Take Belgium for instance. A Belgian ID card has a chip in it like a credit card and a government issued identity certificate, protected by encryption.

In Belgium you can have online voting, certified by your ID card.

Of course in the US and the UK we don't want the Government to intrude into our lives with the likes of an ID card, let alone one with a certificate embedded in it. So online voting, causing online voting fraud, is not only possible but easy.

Postal voting fraud is harder, but is quite possible. Also postal voting happens from the home so we have no idea what happens inside a family where patriarchal or matriarchal dominance may force people to vote in a way they do not agree with.

Today people don't vote because the weather is not good and they don't want to give themselves the trouble of going to the polls and getting wet. My late MIL virtually crawled to the polls, refusing to accept any party's assistance, because she was born into an age where women didn't have the vote and was old enough to remember when the Representation of the People Act.

By not taking responsibility, registering early, turning up at the voting station with the correct evidence, people, not the politicians, generate suspicion and doubt about the results of a democratic election.

This suspicion is then used by the unscrupulous for their own ends.

Welcome to the 21st century.

[cromwell]

I have to admit, I used to be 100% against an ID card. I'm not nearly so sure now; and if the Belgian system is good for fighting electoral fraud then maybe a chipped ID card is for the best.

If it helps to restore faith in the democratic process then it has to be worth considering. I'm still not for on line voting though; a load of votes can turn up out of the blue and you'd never know where from.
Maybe have a card reader in the polling station to prove that you are eligible to vote?

[Workingman]

Postal vote fraud is a doddle, see Birmingham, Peterborough or Bradford West as examples of where people would often go around houses to collect people’s postal votes and vote for them. When it comes to voting in person if you live in England, Wales or Scotland you do not need to bring any identification to vote. You do not even have to take your poll card with you. Turn up, give your name and address to the staff and 'Bingo' you're in.

I am happy to go the ID route - chip or no chip.