Brussels breakdown

[Workingman]

Ah bless, an analogy.... and a pretty useless one. The families are not buying and selling to each other, they are just buying in bulk. In the EU we are trading with each other.

What's the matter? Are the EU not playing to your rules? What you gonna do? Use your UN veto, pull out of NATO, send in the gunboats, call in Horatio, Arthur and Winston? Pathetic, nationationalistic, isolationist nonsense.

The UK is an archipelago off the coast of Europe that does not produce much in the way of tangible goods because Maggie destroyed manufacturing and it cannot feed itself on its own food produce. It / we needed a deal, the oven ready one, the easiest one in human history, the one we were promised by the major players in Vote Leave and Leave.eu in order to get the gullible to vote for them, yet it looks like we are heading for a no-deal nobody ever voted for, and one that will do us all harm.

Stop the bleating and own it. It's yours - you won: remember.

[Suff]

What's the matter? Are the EU not playing to your rules? What you gonna do? Use your UN veto, pull out of NATO, send in the gunboats, call in Horatio, Arthur and Winston? Pathetic, nationationalistic, isolationist nonsense.

Nope, I'm going watch EU refuse to negotiate with us. Because they haven't, not from the very beginning. Granted they walked away with €39bn instead of the €100bn they wanted, but they knew that was never more than a money grab and that it was not going to work.

What I'm also going to do is watch the UK refuse to go back to the negotiating table with the EU.

I'm going to watch the UK negotiate to join CPTPP, which will, with the UK, be very close to the same size as the EU. I'm also going to watch the UK join Mercosur and another $4.6tn trade market. In fact the UK is going to be in trade deals worth significantly more than the Entire EU.

I'm going to watch the EU bleat and squirm and change its stance. Fight internally and tear itself apart. I'm going to watch it from the inside, not the outside, where it will be so much more obvious.

De Gaulle was absolutely right not to let the UK into the European project. Because we're not European in outlook, expectations or action. De Gaulle knew that the UK would always leave and that in leaving might destroy the cohesion of the European project. Because the UK is too big, too powerful and too prominent in world affairs for the EU to simply sweep it under the carpet and carry on. De Gaulle knew the EU would develop a dangerous dependency on the UK if they were ever let in.

Unfortunately those who followed De Gaulle hadn't learned the lesson he had during WW2, living in the UK and coming to understand how we deal with strife and conflict. They were fat, lazy and saw the UK as a plum, ripe for the picking.

Were De Gaulle alive today, he would be saying "I told you so!".

I can't own what I didn't vote for. Yes I supported it, yes I gave good reasons for it. But I left it to those who have to live it at home to decide.

But I stand by what I said. It will hurt but it will be better in the long run. Those who oppose it don't want to look beyond a very short horizon. Those who support it have to have a much longer vision.

[Suff]

And the answer is:

No we're not going to change our negotiation stance, but we're going to set up some directives. It is very telling.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... IP_20_2368

Commission is therefore putting forward today four contingency measures to mitigate some of the
significant disruptions that will occur on 1 January in case a deal with the UK is not yet in place:

- Basic air connectivity: A proposal for a Regulation to ensure the provision of certain air
services between the UK and the EU for 6 months, provided the UK ensures the same.

- Aviation safety: A proposal for a Regulation ensuring that various safety certificates for
products can continue to be used in EU aircraft without disruption, thereby avoiding the
grounding of EU aircraft.

- Basic road connectivity: A proposal for a Regulation covering basic connectivity with regard
to both road freight, and road passenger transport for 6 months, provided the UK assures the
same to EU hauliers.

- Fisheries: A proposal for a Regulation to create the appropriate legal framework until 31
December 2021, or until a fisheries agreement with the UK has been concluded – whichever
date is earlier – for continued reciprocal access by EU and UK vessels to each other's waters
after 31 December 2020. In order to guarantee the sustainability of fisheries and in light of the
importance of fisheries for the economic livelihood of many communities, it is necessary to
facilitate the procedures of authorisation of fishing vessels.

The Commission will work closely with the European Parliament and Council with a view to facilitate
entry into application on 1 January 2021 of all four proposed Regulations.

How very nice of them. You note that Air transport and road transport are "provided the UK assures the same".

You will note that if they don't certify UK air safety certificates, their fleet (not ours), could be grounded.

But the real kicker is the last two.

The EU, unilaterally, is going to set up a framework to ensure that the EU retains its existing 90% access to our fishing grounds for the next year. You will note that it does not have the rider "provided the UK assures the same". Nope, they are going to "tell us" what they are going to do.

Finally, the Commission is going to work closely with the council and the parliament of the EU to ensure these Regulations are put in place.

Talk to the UK? Why would they need to do that? They own our fishing grounds apparently.

Time will tell as to whether they make this one regulation or multiple. Not much of a threat though is it? "Give us another years access to our fishing grounds or we'll ground our entire EU aircraft fleet". So we can expect that to be a separate regulation.

Not sure how the other part is going to be phrased? "Give us another years access to our fishing grounds or we'll stop you from buying all that stuff from us and shipping it home".

No, no, right, it will be: "Give us another years access to our fishing grounds or we'll stop you from selling all your stuff to us and shipping it to us".

Great, you know what our single largest goods export to Germany is?

Oil.

Good luck with that one. Our economy is massively services. Not goods as WM constantly reminds us, we don't make much.

So the EU had the opportunity to revise their negotiating mandate, take on board our issues and actually "negotiate" their way out of the impasse we are currently in.

This is what they chose to do instead!

[medsec222]

It could be in the air container from Brussels coming back with BoJo with the easiest deal in history, or the oven ready one

Ah well Frank - every cloud has a silver lining - the parcel has landed!

[Kaz]

Ah bless, an analogy.... and a pretty useless one. The families are not buying and selling to each other, they are just buying in bulk. In the EU we are trading with each other.

What's the matter? Are the EU not playing to your rules? What you gonna do? Use your UN veto, pull out of NATO, send in the gunboats, call in Horatio, Arthur and Winston? Pathetic, nationationalistic, isolationist nonsense.

The UK is an archipelago off the coast of Europe that does not produce much in the way of tangible goods because Maggie destroyed manufacturing and it cannot feed itself on its own food produce. It / we needed a deal, the oven ready one, the easiest one in human history, the one we were promised by the major players in Vote Leave and Leave.eu in order to get the gullible to vote for them, yet it looks like we are heading for a no-deal nobody ever voted for, and one that will do us all harm.

Stop the bleating and own it. It's yours - you won: remember.

Absolutely! I wonder how jingoistic any of us will be feeling in six months time?

[Kaz]

This sums it up for me! Happy landings!

[TheOstrich]

Stop the bleating and own it. It's yours - you won: remember.

OFCOL. I'm sorry to have to post this, but I will.

I'm not bleating. I never have done. I'm quite happy to own it. I always have been. The only constant bleating I can see on this forum is from the Remoaners. Time you'll gave the moaning a rest, IMHO.

I can't be assed with it anymore, TBH.

[jenniren]

Stop the bleating and own it. It's yours - you won: remember.

OFCOL. I'm sorry to have to post this, but I will.

I'm not bleating. I never have done. I'm quite happy to own it. I always have been. The only constant bleating I can see on this forum is from the Remoaners. Time you'll gave the moaning a rest, IMHO.

I can't be assed with it anymore, TBH.

Well said Ossie, exactly how I feel.

[Kaz]

I'm seriously considering locking this thread, and drawing posters' attention to the announcement post at the top of this board ie the ban on Brexit posts. I had (perhaps unwisely) let that slide, as Brexit is such a huge topic at the moment. So can we all be mindful and not allow this to get personal please.

[Osc]

I'm really not very up on politics and I admit that I don't really understand all the Brexit stuff.

But - what I really don't understand is why, if we decided to leave do we think we have a choice in negotiating anything. Surely if we decide to leave something without prior discussion with who we are leaving we get what we are given? Is that not like leaving the boy scouts, not paying your subs anymore but still expecting to get some badges and be invited to the xmas party?

Yes, it is absolutely like that, but the Brexiters don't seem to "get it"

Yep, also about blue passports and keeping out Johnny Foreigner. It is amazing to me how many Brexiteers are only now discovering that it might affect them adversely.