Why 'king bother?

[KateLMead]

Fight the good fight WM.

[shazsha]

I think the Bedroom Tax will become this government's Poll Tax.

I know literally hundred's of people who have become affected by this new charge.

Glasgow council believes it has 6000 tenants who will be affected.

They have decided to spend £16m on buying 300 one bedroom flats on the open market. Quite were they think these flats will come from is beyond me because there simply isn't enough of them. Modernisation programmes over the last 30 years have removed the majority of one bedroom houses. Those that do exist are generally owned by private landlords who would probably be loathe to let them go as they can command £400 rent monthly from housing benefit.
Thus the council will spend £16m so that 300 of the 6000 people affected will be able to move to one bedroom houses and save approximately £12 weekly. The other 5700 have no choice but to remain where they are because there is no housing stock for them to move into.

WM, as an aside, have you been advised you can apply for discretionary housing benefit payments? I know this hasn't been widely advertised but there is so much available for each area(not enough to cover everyone affected) so it's first come, first served as far as I know. You should apply for it now even though you will be challenging your charges just to make sure you're in with a good chance of getting it.

[pederito1]

Utter nonsense I expect it will cost more to administer than can be recovered. Still it could provide a few more happy homes for illegal immigrants who cant be deported.

[Workingman]

Shaz, I try for the discretionary payments ever year, and every year it fails. I even converted the bedroom into a dining room as the flat does not have a dedicated dining room, but that didn't work either. The flats were purpose built by the Quakers as two-bedroom properties after WWII for those who had been bombed out. They were later sold on as private properties as people moved on. However, is appears that as they were once described as two-bedroomed that is the way things will always be.

The problem in Leeds is similar to Glasgow's - there isn't a stock of one-bed properties in either the social or private sectors. It is probably the same UK wide.

[shazsha]

It's a bad joke, isn't it? It's designed to hit the poorest in society in the hope they won't fight back. There have been lots of protests and planned meetings re it up here and I'm in the middle of reading up about appeals and how it much it will cost each LA. If everyone appealed they would be snowed under. I'm reading it to try and see if it would be viable to draft a stock appeal letter, for the next meeting in my area, so that people affected can use it.
The awful thing is that the government know there isn't enough one bedroom stock available and they impose this tax knowing people have no other options.
I'm also going to have a look at the legalities of this because I'm sure that the government, via welfare, states a MINIMUM amount people should have to live on and by forcing people to pay this money they'll fall beneath these levels.
I know a lot of people complain about the likes of Philpott and benefits but this tax won't really affect that ilk-it's deliberately targeting those who are on the most basic as it is.
One guy at one of the meetings I was at had benefits of £53 weekly, minus a budgeting loan of £7 weekly.When he has to pay the £12 tax he will be left with the grand total of £34 weekly to pay utilities, feed and clothe himself and also get him to any interviews he may have
Ooj the idea of taking a lodger in wouldn't really work. Depending on the lodger's earnings your rent would rise in proportion and anything paid by a lodger over £20 weekly also affects benefits. Also, as a lot of this tax hits ill people. Owing to this many wouldn't really be able to put up with a lodger and vice versa. If the ill person was up a lot at night then many lodgers wouldn't be able to cope with this especially if they were light sleepers who had to be up early themselves.

[Oojamaflip]

Ooj the idea of taking a lodger in wouldn't really work. Depending on the lodger's earnings your rent would rise in proportion and anything paid by a lodger over £20 weekly also affects benefits. Also, as a lot of this tax hits ill people. Owing to this many wouldn't really be able to put up with a lodger and vice versa. If the ill person was up a lot at night then many lodgers wouldn't be able to cope with this especially if they were light sleepers who had to be up early themselves.

Tbh Shaz, I'd hate the idea of feeling forced to take in a paying guest, and I think it's dreadful that people even have to consider it, but I guess it has to be at least considered. I quite agree with you about the 'cons'.

We have a large estate that was built at 'council housing' after the war in the 50s. Many newly weds moved there and raised their families who have now flown the nest. It's these people, for whom their 'council house' has been their almost life-long home, who are being hit the hardest. Many are now widowed and elderly and at the time when they need most stability and least worries, they're being hit with the thought they're keeping family homes from being used by families, and they're in a way, doing another type of 'bed blocking'. It's just horrible. But then again, I feel for those who are living in cramped conditions and need more space for their growing family. It's pitting people against people.

[shazsha]

But then again, I feel for those who are living in cramped conditions and need more space for their growing family. It's pitting people against people.

The thing is, Ooj, that most of the post war housing stock, with more bedrooms, have been privately bought. The ones that are left under LA management are mostly occupied by pensioners and the new tax doesn't apply to them. Thus the housing stock that is needed isn't being freed up. (I should add here that I dont believe that these elderly people should be forced out of their homes-many of them are too old/inform/ill to cope with flitting and, aside from that, they gave to the country.)
Glasgow LA will not be the only ones who have to spend money on buying one bedroom properties. If every amount spent by all LA's was put towards building new stock then more people would rehomed in modern buildings and we wouldn't be spending extra millions on discretionary housing benefit, implementing the bedroom tax and taking people into court to evict them when they cant pay the tax and then having to rehouse them in homeless units.

[Kaz]

Totally agreeing with you Shaz on the lack of one-bedroomed flats and houses. My eldest lives alone and has rented all his adult life - and I can say that going on his experiences there are far more two-bed and three-bed properties around

This government is deluded!!!!

I also agree that the Bedroom Tax will be this government's Poll Tax - there will be rioting in the streets soon if they aren't careful. Not that the media will cover it

[Workingman]

In some ways it has been quite a shrewd political move by the Tories and a double whammy to their opponents.

Most of those affected by it will be in solid Labour areas and yet there is nothing Labour can do to help them. Labour can't come out and say that it will reverse the change as that will be held as a promise after the next election and one which they cannot deliver. All it can do is moan....

The Liberals have, however, shown how weak and ineffective they are. Social justice is supposed to be one of their core tenets, and this is unjust, yet they did not have the balls to walk away. They will be decimated at the next election.

[Fugitive]

It is a mess. The LA are trying to bring the rents up to the same level as the private letting market since capping housing benefits for private tenants. The private letting market prices are high as they are providing much needed homes because of the shortage of LA letting properties. Blaming the right-to-buy has created the shortage but then the LA couldn't keep spending all that money on maintaining the old housing stock for those tenants who could afford to do their own basic improvements and repairs. So a vicious circle. Pensioners are safe as are those with disabilities and needing an extra bedroom for overnight carers.

I hope it isn't another Poll Tax rebellion because I was and still am a supporter of the Poll Tax as Council Tax based on the value of the house is plain wrong.