Just about managing.

[Workingman]

During the height of the austerity years it was the phrase used to describe people, families or groups who were bumping along not really getting anywhere - the JAMs.

Following the latest figures from the ONS on working trends two things emerge - 730,000 jobs have gone since the pandemic began and the number in work decreased by 220,000 in the last quarter. The difference in the two figures is partly explained by the highest being for the whole pandemic period whilst the smaller is a quarterly figure. The numbers are further compounded due to the millions of people who are furloughed, those on zero hours contracts but not getting shifts, or people on temporary unpaid leave from a job as they still count as employed. A bit of a muddy picture.

What does seem clear is that the figures will get worse in the coming months. Companies have already said that redundancies will rise once furlough ends and the number of people claiming universal credit rose to 2.7 million in July, up by 117% since March.

This makes me wonder about how many businesses were also JAMs and for how long?

These businesses were also just bumping along, They were not making losses, but neither were they making sustainable profits. They were only just about able to keep people in work and off benefits and that raises questions about how robust the UK economy actually was. However, and on a positive note, gaps in the market will open up and there will be opportunities for new businesses so it's not all doom and gloom as the BBC, Sky and others would have us believe.

[TheOstrich]

... gaps in the market will open up and there will be opportunities for new businesses so it's not all doom and gloom...

You're more positive in your outlook than I am, WM. Please allow the Prophets of Doom to put their oar in ....

My concern would be how many of those jobs now being lost were actually non-jobs or "manufactured" jobs; a South Sea Bubble of jobs that were froth and will never come back as the economy contracts and reshapes itself. That's a lot of people with nothing to do, and I would question how many would have the go-get or the resources to become your starting point - new business entrepreneurs. Many of the "old" businesses - the High Street, the hospitality outlets, the small independents - will disappear and there's no obvious replacement for them. Every High Street turned into housing is a whole raft of jobs gone for ever.

We need a serious look as to whether this country can actually sustain its current population. All I can see is a lot of impoverished, discontented people emerging from the shadows, and that does not bode well for the future.

[Suff]

In the 1970's the crippling economic situation caused a huge amount of damage to businesses in the country. The government of the day kept on borrowing money to prop them up instead of creating an environment which fostered the ability of those companies to support themselves.

Then came the Thatcher government, the drip feed was turned off and companies were turned out in the cold to fend for themselves. It was hard, it was Darwinian, but the resulting companies that survived were strong and the economy thrived. Eventually. Yes there was hardship, yes there was pain, but the country was growing better for it. Of course then we got Brown and Blair who turned on the drip feed again in a good economy and neither Cameron nor May wanted to turn it off when things went bad.

Now we have another crisis, the government simply can't afford to do another 1970's so the end result is going to be companies going to the wall and people who will suddenly find their chances of a job, ever again, have become slim to none. Not a very pleasant topic.

How we deal with this situation will determine the health of the country throughout this new decade.

It will bear watching.

[Workingman]

Never mind, they are trying to cheer us up with the news that job adverts have seen a spike in demand in August - the numbers are up, the averages are up, the trend is upwards. Up, up and away....

Then you see the jobs. They are for drivers, warehouse workers, gardeners, brick layers, takeaway delivery, debt collectors, playworkers, joiners, painters and decorators and the likes. They are all semi or low-skilled jobs in the wider service sector and that means low pay. Yes they will be working, but only the brickies and the joiners can be described as "producers" and even that is stretching things.

What we need is people, lots of them, making lots of things to sell to lots of other people in lots of other countries. Thatcher made damned sure that we now do not have that capability so we have to start again. We need to ask South Korea, Taiwan and Malaysia how its done, they have the blueprints.

[TheOstrich]

Then you see the jobs.

I have seen reference to a Transport for London advert for a Tube Train driver that reportedly got over 10.000 applications .....

[Suff]

What we need is people, lots of them, making lots of things to sell to lots of other people in lots of other countries. Thatcher made damned sure that we now do not have that capability so we have to start again. We need to ask South Korea, Taiwan and Malaysia how its done, they have the blueprints.

We can't have them. We have rights, pay controls, wage councils, unions, pressure groups after pressure groups to ENSURE that our workers rights are enshrined in unbreakable titanium.

Normal things are made in countries which don't have these rights. Because we don't actually want to pay for these rights, we want to get cheap stuff.

Special things are made in countries with these rights because you will pay whatever it costs for special things.

Just ask every auto manufacturer in the EU. Where are they building new factories? Turkey, Russia!

Before we start bemoaning the fact that jobs are vanishing, we might want to ask ourselves why.

Or not!

So we aren't going to be making things any time soon. Or in the long term.