Spot the pattern

[cromwell]

Well we can all speculate on why this is happening, but the fact is that whatever the cause China has historically produced various killer strains of flu and is continuing to do so.
Imo we should inform them that if they don't put their mucky house in order we are going to stop buying their goods.

[Workingman]

I sense an element of blaming, but, I ask, could it just possibly be that China is located at one point on the planet where these viruses flourish in nature and in the fauna? Could it also be that there is something in the ethnic Chinese DNA which makes them more vulnerable to these infections and therefore more likely to pass them on to other humans?

I am sure that the increase in urban population areas has not helped, but the same could be said for Ebola, Lassa and Malaria in Africa.

[cromwell]

I sense an element of blaming, but, I ask, could it just possibly be that China is located at one point on the planet where these viruses flourish in nature and in the fauna?

I honestly don't care if the viruses flourish in the Golden Dragon takeaway in Beijing WM. The facts are that China is producing these rotten diseases every few years and they need to up their game to stop them as far as may be. It's every couple of years now that they produce one.

[Workingman]

Cromwell, you make it sound as though China is deliberately and / or maliciously churning out these viruses as if they were software updates: Virus 1.0; Virus 1.1; Virus 2.0....

My take is that it is more likely that it just happens to be a part of the world where conditions are suitable for these mutations to evolve naturally and then spread into the human population.

It is unlikely for such events to happen in GB because we have neither the climate nor the variety of wildlife for them to take hold.

[Suff]

Recent research tends to led to the conclusion that the so called "Spanish" Flu was noting of the sort and quite likely came from
China.

[TheOstrich]

Recent research tends to led to the conclusion that the so called "Spanish" Flu was noting of the sort and quite likely came from
China.

Yes, there was a lengthy article about this in the Times Supplement today. But the Chinese connection is only a theory and no-one knows for sure - there are also schools of thought that it could have originated in Austria or Sierra Leone.

What is possibly undeniable is that (a) unsanitary conditions and (b) the mass movement of humans created the conditions for the virus to develop and spread. And that is what we are seeing today with (a) Chinese livestock markets and (b) a globally-connected economy. The latter is as much to blame for the pandemic, IMHO, as the former.

As an aside, perhaps there is something to be said for chlorinating your chicken after all ….

[Workingman]

From the whole article we get;

More recently, experts have proposed a third hypothesis: The Spanish flu originated somewhere in northern China in late 1917...

That's it, not a word more. That's the "proof".

Well my mate Andy knows a bloke down 'Spoons who has a budgie called Gary and he says it started in a whorehouse in Halifax - the bloke said it, not the budgie. At least I think that's it, but it could've been the budgie as he's an expert.

As for wet markets: I was reading a PDF about them with no C & P available.

It refers to hot countries in and around the tropics. Basically the markets go back to the time before we had electricity and fridges. A live animal, chicken, goat, lamb, fish, was chosen and slaughtered there and then. The carcass was taken home and immediately cooked or preserved because if that was not done it would soon rot. Today's markets are a throwback to those times and still necessary in some places.

Even those of us in cooler climes once had open livestock markets and used preserving methods for the foods we could not eat there and then, it's how we got all those cheeses, hams, salted beef, and smoked or dried sausages and fish.

I also remember a local grocer who had rabbits, hares, partridge, pheasant and ducks hung up in the window. They were all fully clothed but also very dead. Not ready-meals by any stretch and also a bit 'wild', as is most of the venison in the UK. In N. America they hunt, shoot and eat bear, buffalo, elk, moose, caribou, raccoons, possums, and alligator, among other things, so let's not get too hung up on this wild meat thing. And many of us get through quite a bit of non-farmed (wild) fish and shellfish, which is probably healthier than the farmed stuff anyway.

But I digress. it's all China's fault - 100%. The natural world plays no part whatsoever.

[Kaz]

There must be a reason why these viruses start in China, though Frank The reality is that they eat things that historically the west would only eat under extreme conditions, such as a siege. Bats? Rats? Pangolins? It's hardly the same as bagging a few pigeons or shooting rabbits for the pot

[Workingman]

There must be a reason why these viruses start in China, though Fran?!.

Absolutely, and that is what I have been trying to get at all this time: Why do the viruses start to mutate in that region? What are the conditions present in nature that cause a virus to jump species? How does the chain of events begin and develop? This is going on all the time in nature without any involvement from us humans.

They are completely different from how it (Cov-19) then spreads through the human population.

Viruses are organisms in existence almost everywhere on earth - in animals, plants, fungi; even bacteria. Most of the time they bump along without any problem. A virus in a cat will not infect a dog, one in a mushroom will not infect a badger, and so on. Yet sometimes, and for an unknown reason, one will mutate in its host and when it jumps species it can become fatal to that species or it might remain benign till the next jump, and then it becomes fatal to the third party.

This happens in the tropics and sub-tropics more so than anywhere else in the world and it all takes place long before the diet or the hygiene standards of the third party comes into play. The third party does not have to be human.

Once the jump is made into humans then it is obvious that their urban concentration numbers and their mobility, far more wide ranging and speedier than probably any other animal with the exception of birds, allows for exponential growth. But it still remains that we humans were not the first link in the chain and did not cause the initial mutation or subsequent jump.

[Suff]

WM, it was only a theory that "Spanish" Flu started in Spain. One which, on review, appears to be incorrect.

It appears to have been classified as a coronavirus. H1N1, the first.

How many other coronaviruses have originated outside China?