SNP are agitating again.

[Suff]

So, apparently, Sturgeon is wittering on about how Scotland cannot be imprisoned in the UK. Personally I thought the 45 and Culodden settled that one pretty decisively.

As I recall Salmond won 56 seats in the UK parliament elections, more than 50% of the vote in the Scottish government elections (by hybrid PR) and won a vote in the Scottish parliament to have a referendum. At which point Cameron was left with very little choice in the matter if he wanted to cloak himself in Democracy.

I'd say Sturgeon has a loooong way to go before she proves she has an unassailable right.

[Workingman]

It would be nice to think that Sturgeon is an irrelevance south of the border, but she isn't. Whilever the SNP gets 45%-50%+ of the seats in the Scottish Parliament she will be heard.

Unfortunately what she says and how she says it might, and probably is, make(ing) the the rest of the UK think that Scotland should foxtrot oscar.

Recent events have awoken a rather dangerous English Nationalism and some comments made by its self-elected members against the Welsh, N.Irish and Scots have me worried, very worried. These people would be more than happy to push Scotland out of the Union and, as they see it, hand NI back to the Republic. Wales can go sing....

Do not be fooled into thinking these people are 'Little Englanders'. They are not, they are a much more dangerous breed.

[cromwell]

I would be quite happy for Scotland to have an Indyref 2 woth one proviso - that they stick to the bl**dy result!
I don't want this coming up every two years.
If Scotland wants to leave the union I'd be a bit sad, lots of shared history and all that.
The biggest problem Sturgeon has is if the English ever get a vote on the matter because I fear they would absolutely insist on Scotland leaving the union next week,if only to see the back of Sturgeon and Blackford.

[cromwell]

Unfortunately what she says and how she says it might, and probably is, make(ing) the the rest of the UK think that Scotland should foxtrot oscar.

Agreed, and I think Sturgeon et al are being deliberately obnoxious to foster the foxtrot oscar sentiment in England. And it's working.

[TheOstrich]

Well, a majority in this country wanted out of the EU back in 2016, therefore it would be churlish to deny the right of the Scots to leave the UK if that is what the majority of them want.
But let us be clear from the start - no subsidies, no use of the £, trade under full WTO tariffs, no common travel area and a hard border. Not Project Fear, just hard realism - especially if Scotland wants to subsequently join the EU. Again, that's absolutely fine, it will then cement their independent status, and they can then contribute and kowtow to the Brussels Bureaucrats. I'm sure the Catalonians will give them a warm welcome.

In the same way that we all got weary of Brexit debate, I suspect we'll all very quickly get weary of IndyRef2 debate, and yes, Sturgeon must be well aware that alienating the English people is going to help her cause immensely.
That said, perhaps we do need a meaningful debate as to whether or not the Union has now passed its sell-by date ......

[Suff]

It does need a grown up discussion and it should be faced.

Mrs S voted No in the last one and she is all for IndyRef2 because the polling is showing 60% against. She doesn't want to wait for sentiment to change.

Personally I want Scotland to wait until Brexit has happened and we see the outcome. Then people will make an informed decision.

I also want Sturgeon to prove that she has a mandate in Scotland for this vote. Right now she does not have a majority or a mandate in Hollywood. She is trying to stampede voters with fearmongering over EU exit.

Whilst I would like to see Scotland independent, this is not the way. Asked, today, I would vote and I would vote No.

[Workingman]

My grandfather was from Ayr and I have family in Ayr, Bathgate, Linlithgow and Livingston. I am not sure where they stand on ScIndy because it hardly gets mentioned.

When it does get metioned, south of the border, it does not take long for many Scot Nats to turn it into a romantic rant about Bannockburn, Willie Wallace, Robert the Bruce, Flow'r o' Scotland, BP Charlie, and every rotten thing is England and Westminster's fault. There is a palpable hatred of England and the English in a lot of what they say. They might be a minority, but boy do they make a noise!

When it comes to 'their' independence millions of us, including many Scots, are well confused. They want out of the union with the hated England because they apparently get no say in things, yet they want to immediately jump into bed with the undemocratic, dictatorial EUSSR. We know it's undemocratic and dictatorial because that is what we have been told over and over for the past three years. It's what won that other divisive argument.

The Scot Nats do not want independence in its true sense. They do not want an independent economy, currency and politics - real independence. What they really want is to be rid of England, and once that is done they want to then wrap themselves in the security blanket of the EU.

[Suff]

I can't disagree that there is a small segment that is like that WM. The problem for the UK is they dig up and highlight real areas of imbalance and dismissiveness from the rest of the UK that anger the Middle ground.

When the rest of the UK knee jerk react to the rabid minority, the middle ground see it and harden their views more.

It is like the other divisive problem, plenty of losers in the short term and very few looking longer than the end of their nose.

It needs a whole bucket load less rhetoric and a whole lot more time.

Neither of which will benefit the poison dwarf.

[Workingman]

A poll of polls for 11th Dec shows 47% No, 46% Yes, 6% Dk and 1% Refused. It's all to play for as far as Sturgeon is concerned.

If she can wind up the English anti Scots people even more she could use them and their invective (Just look at what the English think of us) as a lever to persuade the undecided and the reluctant / middle ground No voters to change: there will be a few. We might not like Sturgeon, but she is not daft.

If the polls move upwards of the high 50s as a percentage for a ref the pressure on the Johnson to allow one will be immense. I would not put money on him not giving in despite his promises to resist.

[cromwell]

If Sturgeon ever does get independence, I wonder what she'll do with it?
Small population, small economy, and the SNP are talking about being very open to immigration. The EU could always change their mind and admit Scotland but I am 100% against the situation dragging on for ten years or more whilst Sturgeon decides what currency she wants to use, what sort of border she wants, what sort of subs she wants from England for the transition period, etc etc etc.
If it happens it happens, but make it quick and make it stick.

Then of course, the subject of a united Ireland keeps coming up...

I feel a thread coming on...