The EU has finally had enough of us.

[Workingman]

Following last night's defeat Mk2 of May's deal Barnier made a statement to the EU parliament this morning. He said that the risk of a disorderly Brexit has never been higher and also pointed out that the EU could not go any further in trying to persuade MPs to back the already agreed terms of exit. He put the ball firmly back in the UK's court. He also gave a strong hint that the EU might not allow an extension to A50 unless the UK came up with something completely new to negotiate. All of that puts us in a difficult position.

This evening MPs will vote to reject a no-deal Brexit. It is about as meaningless a vote as can be imagined. It is said that A50 is enshrined in UK law: true. It is also said that the law can be changed: also true. However, it is also enshrined in the Lisbon Treaty Article 50 (3)

The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

The UK can play with its laws till the cows come home, but it cannot change the treaty: A50 ends on the 29th of March.

Tomorrow parliament will vote to extend A50. Again it is meaningless. It is not up to the UK to extend. We can ask / request but the ultimate decision lies with the EU 27 acting in unanimity.

The UK can howl and stamp and scream, but we are not in control. Our choices are stark - May's deal (she will try again), no deal or revoke A50. Everything else is just window dressing.

[saundra]

I like millions more are fedup with it all it should end March29
And we should go back to buying made in Britain i live in hope

[jenniren]

It's no wonder so many now have contempt for our parliamentary system, democracy seems a distant memory!!!

[Workingman]

Ah yes, democracy. The question arises, when did its demise begin?

For me the seeds were sown when May called her opportunistic GE to gain a bigger majority in the HoC. That went so well we ended up with a hung parliament and May having to bribe the DUP to keep the Tories in power. - very democratic eh?

The next cut was when May invoked A50. That action set in motion a major constitutional change, but it was unilateral on her part. She did it without a plan to take it forward and she did it without a consensus of any sort, not least within her own party. She placed party before country - very democratic eh?

The next cut came when she scrapped the December meaningful vote shortly after announcing that it would take place as planned. She did it because she knew that her deal would be defeated - very democratic eh?

The next cut came when she lost her deal by 230 votes yet brought it back for another go where it was lost again by 149 - very democratic eh?

So yes, democracy is diminished, but there were many players involved in that process.

The news tonight, after more defeats for May, the rumour is that she will try for meaningful vote Mk3 on her deal - very democratic eh?

[cromwell]

Probably in the 1970's with the rise of Quangos. Added to by the formation of groups like Common purpose and the actions of Blair and Cameron, both of whom centralised party power in London. With the formation of NGOs and fake Charities.
With the handing over of power from the elected to the unelected.

[Workingman]

Cromwell, don't forget the Westminster lobbyists whose businesses have MPs or members of the HoL on their boards. Then there are those Think Tanks with their links to parliament. Any such T T that starts its mission statement with "We are an independent...." almost certainly isn't.

There are many areas in the HoC, HoL and Civil Service and local government where democracy is on life support.