Now here is a Grenfell twist.

[Workingman]

Communities Secretary Sajid Javid says that tenants who were illegally subletting will not face prosecution.

Why not?

They were acting illegally and their actions could have played a part in the disaster. There could have been any number of people living in flats designed for no more than two to six people. Many of those subletting could have been illegal immigrants flying under the radar, and in any case they are most likely to be the ones who will remain unidentified.

Giving immunity to illegal subletters sends out wrong message up and down the land. We have laws and they should be applied, otherwise why have them?

[cromwell]

I agree; but the Tories are on the back foot. If they did prosecute then they would be called the heartless nasty party and they want to avoid that.

[Workingman]

It is not for the Tories or government to make this decision, it is for the CPS and Judiciary.

If the law has been broken then it has to be upheld. If it is good enough for Hillsborough then it is good enough for Grenfell.

[medsec222]

No-one should be above the law.

[AliasAggers]

No-one should be above the law.

and no-one should break the law.

If the punishments for doing so were severe enough to deter more people,
life would be sweeter for us all. Laws are meant to be observed, so why
aren't the punishments for doing so more severe? Because the political party
that proposed this would lose the votes of all the countless habitual law breakers,
as well as, in many cases, putting themselves in the firing line.

Let's face it, we have become a nation of law-breakers.

[TheOstrich]

No-one should be above the law.

Let's face it, we have become a nation of law-breakers.

Yes and why? Because of the sheer plethora of laws in this country that simply cannot be enforced.

Just as an example, DofT research made public this week has found that 81% of drivers broke the 20 mph speed limits at 9 selected sites which had been monitored. Yet local councils are still rolling out blanket 20 mph zones across whole swathes of urban areas, Birmingham being a case in point. And all this council action will create is a huge raft of car-drivers who will simply shrug their shoulders and break the law. And once these people have broken the 20 mph law, what law will they shrug their shoulders at and break next?

[manxie]

It might help matters if the politicians themselves led by example in not breaking the law.

We see often of parties campaign funds being exceeded or blatently lied about, the same with their expenses it is time those offenders were prosecuted too.

if we are to cure the malaise of disregard for what is right and wrong in our society then it has to start at the top.

It also needs to include everyone regardless of social position or standing from Police to the ones on the benefits who misuse the system.

I accept it might only be a small percentage of any given section, but is really does need doing, as for unpopular of course it will be but any party stopping some of the fiddling that goes on will collect more votes than they are likely to lose because there are more honest people about than dishonest, IMO.

I also think that it is time to bring back more severe sentencing for crimes involving injury or manslaughter or murder.

Build more prisons if they are needed and then as the crime rate drops and the extra prisons are not needed then find other uses for the buildings.

I also think that either a borstal system like we had or even some sort of national service would be invaluable in getting wayward youth back on track, I realise the services don't want troublemakers or skivers but a 6 month spell of discipline and learning how to act in a team or a society would be of benefit to everyone in the long run, I was in the forces and remember one lad who volunteered like me was a right so and so in the beginning but as he learned he was one of the top recruits at the end of the training, the total change in him was so obvious to everyone.

Before anyone says I will add that those in further education ,university, apprenticeships could be exempt as they don't need that educational advantage that national service brings, also, possibly they could do a part time spell in the reserves I think, many other countries do this already so why not here??

My two pennyworth lol

Manxie xx

A PS an after thought as a country now if there was a war our forces are so small we wouldn't stand a chance plus when so great a percentage of our population wouldn't know how to use a gun we would soon be overrun and have to capitulate, unlike so many other counties where they are more tolerant to gun ownership, there will always be those who commit crimes with guns I accept that but if a burglar knew you had a gun in your home and knew how to use it I bet the crime rate would actually fall as he would think twice about trying to steal from you,...rather than the owning of a gun cause more problems.

Manxie xx

[Suff]

A PS an after thought as a country now if there was a war our forces are so small we wouldn't stand a chance plus when so great a percentage of our population wouldn't know how to use a gun we would soon be overrun and have to capitulate

Manxie, that's like saying that Russia would be overrun by China because China has a two million man standing army with tens of millions as reserves and Russia only has 1 million standing army with 2.5 million reserves.

In reality if Russia was threatened, the Chinese army would be hit with tactical nukes and China would be threatened with wholesale nuclear Armageddon.

In a post thermonuclear era, no country with nuclear weapons can ever be called "weak" or its defence defined by the size of its army.

Of course if we all signed up to Corbyn’s idea of the world, then we would be exactly that, weak and undefended and only able to capitulate in any serious war. Something to think long and hard about.

The UK is the third largest nuclear power in the world by deliverable power, France is 4th, China is 5th and then we have Israel, India and Pakistan. Deliverable power, in the nuclear context is just about all there is for measuring how catastrophic it would be to attack that nation.

For instance China would be utterly devastated if Russia went Nuclear but Russia would merely be significantly hurt. If even that as Russia has ABM defences which might, or might not, work.

I often wonder if people don’t realise that the 5 permanent members of the UN security council are the 5 major nuclear powers in the world? Yes conventional forces are needed to project non nuclear power, to hold land and to influence people short of catastrophic war.

But never, ever, think the UK is some useless backwater because it has 29,000 frontline combat troops ready to deploy. It’s about half what the EU has as the EU has mainly French frontline combat troops ready to deploy and the UK troops are considered better trained and more effective than the EU troops.

This whole “we’re just a little island” really irks me. So was Japan in WWII. The UK is a massive world power which derives world respect from that power. The BS about the UK being some insignificant little nobody comes from the EU and that is only to try and override the UK on every issue.

Don’t be fooled. Bite us and you’ll get your knackers flattened. The rest of the world, outside the EU, knows it, I’m saddened that the people of the UK do not.