IN or OUT ?

[Aggers]

I'm getting fed up with all the statements being made by so-called experts in this country concerning what the horrific financial outcome will be to us all if we vote to leave the EU. To me it is obvious that they are deliberately painting a false picture of the catastrophic financial implications if the OUT vote wins. What annoys me is that they can get away with their horror predictions should the OUT vote wins and they are proved to be wrong. It should, in my opinion, be made a criminal offence to make statements deliberately designed to frighten voters into making a decision on how to vote.
They won't frighten be though. I will just make a mental note of these false-tongued swine and treat then forever with the contempt they deserve.

[TheOstrich]

What the Leave campaigners should do now is take that much-derided £350m a week the EU costs us and tell us exactly how they would reallocate that across the country - agriculture, Scotland, NHS, border controls, Welsh Valleys, urban renewal, etc. etc. I believe if they did that, coupled with more than a hint or two that neither Cameron nor Osborne are much longer for power in the event of Brexit, then the general population would know exactly where they stand, and it would be a vote winner .....

[Suff]

It would. But the reality is that the Brexiters would have to win an election to make sure it's spent on what they say it will be.

For me that's a side issue as you can never trust them to do what they should and more money just means more waste in my book. But it's a good goal to aim for even if we miss.

For me it's different. The EU is going to a place we are adamant we don't want to go. We know we can't change that direction from within.

Why do the journey only to have to walk back 10 years after it's sucked us dry and left us even worse able to make the step.

That, for me, is the argument. Be assimilated and enjoy it or get he hell out now.

[Workingman]

The EU is going to a place we are adamant we don't want to go. We know we can't change that direction from within.

Hogwash!

In NI all but the DUP want to remain in the EU.

In Wales Labour and Plaid together are way out in front of those who want to leave.

In Scotland the SNP want Independence from England, but to be part of the EU: work that one out.

In England it is too close to call.

The UK in the EU has always had the ability to drive the direction the of the EU, it is to the shame of previous politicians (Maggie, Blair) that we did not do that.

[Kaz]

I agree with you Frank, neither option is ideal but on balance I am for remaining.

[Suff]

OK so 15% of the UK want to stay in and the other 85% are being fed a constant diet of total BS so they can't make their minds up.

Let's be blunt here. The UK can only block the EU by using it's veto. In no other way does the UK change the EU, any more than the Danish vote or the Irish vote.

Otherwise the Maastricht treaty would have fallen when the UK and the Danes blocked it.

Yet one French and Dutch vote killed the constitution and brought about the Lisbon treaty. 40 years of the UK railing against the mess the EU is in has never brought about one second's change in their attitude. Even when we vetoed their Transaction tax....

I will reiterate. The EU IS Schengen and the Euro.

We do not want Schengen and the Euro.

So why stay? Everything else builds on top of those two and those two are fundamentally incompatible with the UK.

Opt outs? Why? Because we don't want to be what the EU is? Why stay? Oh? The risk?

There is a simple and fundamental part of project management the world over. What is the risk of doing nothing. Honestly I don't see that being debated. I only see the risk of leaving being put down as a major fear factor. Never do I see a clear debate where the real issues of sovereignty and supremacy of state law over EU federal law, are clearly discussed and put on the table for people to choose.

People are being asked to fear the unknown whilst being fobbed off with platitudes about he known. Playing down the fear of the known. The grass may not always be greener but the man standing in a desert should know the difference between a mirage and the oasis he is looking at over the fence.

I'm pretty certain fear will win in the end. My mitigation is to see that my family is so mobile that the fear and weakness of the masses only hurt the masses and not my family. All the rest? Not my problem. They had the opportunity to make a choice and not one in one hundred thousand will even have read the treaties which govern what they are voting for....

[cromwell]

This what I don't get Suff. If you join a club it is because you like the club, if you don't like it you leave.

If we have to keep asking for opt outs on this, that and the other then why are we in the club if we don't like the rules?

[Suff]

It is very simple and everyone should understand this with crystal clarity.

If we are in the EU then our Government is no longer solely responsible for the actions they take. The Government would have to bear total responsibility for their decisions and manage the affairs of the country in a way which doesn't just buy votes but actually ensures the ship doesn't sink.

So they stay in the club to gain shared responsibility for their idiocy and pay a huge sum to get that shared responsibility.

The continual opt outs? Well that's because those who don't want to do their job won't tell the people that they don't want to do the job. So they can constantly complain that Brussels is "interfering" when, in reality, they, the politicians, have invited the interference to take away the risks of doing the job we pay them for.

That is the bare and unalloyed truth of the matter.

Apparently the British people don't care if we are not British any more.

What is British? It is a nation of leaders. People who make decisions, the right decisions and lead the world in the right direction by being a huge nation of trade with military power to back it.

The British people, generally, don't want to do that any more. They want to cruise in the EU and take the benefits and? Well? Get someone else to tell them what to do.

Of course that "someone else" is making the decisions, changing our laws, changing the way we do business and stripping our assets and wealth.

In the end we won't be able to be "British" any more and we won't want to. Because we'll be just another EU also ran who used to have a big economy and a big empire. Austro Hungary anyone?

And you know what? When our nation of leisure seekers (not the one's who've spent their lives paying for it but the others who don't want to pay for it), vote to continue in the EU, I won't be sad, I won't be mad, I'll just get on with my life which means that my family won't be British within 40 years or so.

Why be sad? The people decided they didn't want to lead any more. They want to follow and every poll on the EU shows that. Let them have what they want. Even if, when they wake up and realise they are nothing more than California is to Washington DC, they realise they threw it all down the drain, it was their decision.

What I won't listen to is any more discontent. If we vote to stay then we shut up. We stop getting opt outs. The UKIP can stop being disruptive and we get on with being European as we've voted to be. We join Schengen. We join the Euro, we apply ourselves to the treaties and we make sure that we get more than our fair share, just like everyone else. We sharpen our knife and stick it in the backs of the other states who have helped us. We make nasty little side deals in Brussels to derail things we don't want and we create our own snake to rule the snake pit that is Brussels.

We give them more, oh so much more money, but we tie it into treaties that we get even more back than we have given them.

In short we learn to be Europeans and stop being British.

That's what we're voting for isn't it?

Well isn't it?

[Aggers]

We give them more, oh so much more money, but we tie it into treaties that we get even more back than we have given them.
In short we learn to be Europeans and stop being British.

That's what we're voting for isn't it?
Well isn't it?

NO IT ISN'T. At least I'm not.
I remember what it was like to be British - to belong to a country to be proud of.
I would like the young folk of today to grow up in a country like Britain used to be.

[Suff]

So would I.

But they won't. Because they will vote for that on the understanding that it is something else.

Their loss.