Hillsborough.

[medsec222]

No intent to kill, but a terrible mistake was made on the day by the officer in charge and what followed was 27 years of cover ups, lies, blame, and distortion of the truth. Those at the top within ten to fifteen minutes of the most appalling tragedy, had already concocted their story in order to protect themselves rather than admit to error. Once the lie was told and fed to the media to perpetrate, they had no option but to perjure themselves for 27 years, even as I understand it, still peddling the same lies at the Warrington inquiry. These people ought to be held to account and prosecuted and that decision now lies in the hands of the CPS. It remains to be seen just how many of those in positions of power conspired together to conceal the truth. Other important issues which should have been scrutinised at the time, such as the pens which prevented fans escaping onto the pitch, the numbers of tickets sold, and the numbers allowed into the ground etc, were not examined, because the blame had been put squarely on the shoulders of the drunken Liverpool yobs.

The police at Hillsborough were solely responsible for crowd control on the day and they lost that control with devastating consequences for 96 families.

Their job was to ensure public safety, but the public were not safe.

[KateLMead]

I heartily agree Medsec.a nightmare.

[Workingman]

Listen, I understand all the anger, even hatred, directed towards the police, but as Meds says a terrible mistake was made on the day by officers in charge. That is why the verdict of unlawful killing mystifies me, and many others.

All the lies, half-truths and covering up did not kill those 96 fans, what happened on the day did. In a few moments of mayhem a tragedy unfolded that nobody could have predicted or practised for in any meaningful way. Those officers at Hillsborough as the sky fell in will have been doing their level best to save lives not to kill people. It was only when questions were being asked later that it became clear mistakes were made, but they were just that: mistakes.

Having said that, I do believe that those responsible for changing their accounts of events should be punished. And especially those at the top, who ordered ordinary plods to change statements or lose notebooks, should be prosecuted and jailed if found guilty.

[Kaz]

I agree with you Frank x

[miasmum]

So do I

Frank I think your post is the most sensible and honest thing I have read about Hillsborough

[Aggers]

Yes, Frank. You have summed it up excellently.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

[Suff]

I've tried to stay out of this for as long as possible because my views are radically different from almost everyone else.

I agree with Frank totally that those police who attempted to pervert the course of justice should be charged for it. They are supposed to be kept to a higher standard that us because they are the gatekeepers of peace and compliance in our society.

I am totally and completely against any verdict which finds the police guilty of any kind of killing.

Not so long back on this very board I said that if I knocked someone over by accident and they fell and died because of a pre-existing condition which nobody could have foreseen, then I would not expect to wind up in court on manslaughter charges. It would be an accident, terrible, but an accident.

However the opinion on this board was that I should be up on charges. Notably I was defending the actions of a police officer that every wanted to hate. Hell I didn't like him myself but I recognised that what happened could happen to my own son and that it needed to be viewed that way.

So I'm totally bemused today. Are they suggesting that the police crushed them up against the fence? Surely there were not enough police.

But even I, who take no interest in football and especially any interest in this case since I've seen the direction it was going in, know that it was the fans who "killed" their fellow fans.

I note the fans are not in the dock.

I also note that it was obvious to a blind man that everyone was going to blame the police whether it was their fault or not. Hence their illegal actions afterwards.

Yes mistakes were made and people have paid for that. The police have learned and clubs have also learned. Then again it was always possible this could happen again.

However one lesson has been learned that absolutely nobody is talking about. A lesson which has absolutely guaranteed, in the UK anyway, that this will never happen again.

The lesson was learned by the fans. They have learned that if those at the back don't behave like adults and stand there until they are either let in or don't get into the match, then their actions could kill some of their own. I don't doubt that everyone in that mass of pushing bodies has not had a few seconds to wonder what would have happened if they had been at the front, instead of at the back.

It' won't happen again because the fans have learned, finally, to act like adults and accept what is rather than trying to use their massed strength to force entry.

Notably this will never be said. Nothing will ever be directly learned from it. Because it's being ignored, fans in other countries my, once again, face this very issue. Because this entire decades of action has been one whole "lie by omission" as the families have tried to hang this on the police because they were simply not prepared to deal with this kind of incident and reverted to orders rather than good common sense.

Nothing can come of this enquiry but more tragedy on top of the tragedy already experienced. Because it ignores the very root cause of the issue.

Which is why I never read a single article about it, have no interest in the proceedings and try to avoid discussing it. The verdict was, in the end, utterly predictable and utterly unjust.

[TheOstrich]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... olice-lies

Slowly beginning to edge closer to reality, I think ....