Another dynamic for Brexit?

[Suff]

I wonder how much this will catch fire in Scotland?

After all, if the UK were out of the EU, then the whole threat of Scotland having to re-negotiate with the EU would be a moot point and that was a really big stumbling point in the referendum. If it were reversed, in the next 3 years say, it might just be enough to get Scotland out.

I'm wondering if this is a hidden dynamic which the SNP voters may climb on. It would make quite a large difference to the end result if it were very close.

[Workingman]

I missed this earlier.

Have to say that it has got to the point where the rest of us could not care less.

If the Scots want to go independent and be independent, fine.

If they want to remain part of the Union if we remain in the EU, fine.

If they want to remain part of the Union after Brexit, fine.

If they want independence 'lite' after Brexit and join the EU, fine.

Do what you want, just shut the FU about it; (not you Suff, them), and I say that as someone with Scottish heritage.

[Suff]

Yep but it could be a real spanner in the works for the pollsters.... Hard one to second guess as I know a lot of Scots believe that Scotland needs the EU as a market to keep their businesses going.

[medsec222]

We have the chance of a lifetime of escaping the clutches of the EU. I hope we don't blow it.

[Workingman]

Don't worry your self, Meds.

My side are making such a ba11s up of things you leavers have it in the bag.

[medsec222]

Hope so Frank.

[Aggers]

I think it is a damn cheek that the Government is spending thousands of pounds of our money
sending paperwork to us all, telling us the supposed benefits of voting to stay in the E.U.

Will they do the same for the Brexit supporters? If not, then I maintain they are committing a devious,
if not a criminal, offence, and deserve to be kicked out.

[Workingman]

I think it is a damn cheek that the Government is spending thousands of pounds of our money
sending paperwork to us all, telling us the supposed benefits of voting to stay in the E.U.

Will they do the same for the Brexit supporters? If not, then I maintain they are committing a devious,
if not a criminal, offence, and deserve to be kicked out.

I have just seen Farage on Sky News and he says much the same thing, and I agree with you both. He also pulled to pieces the 'statements' made by the government which are supposedly the benefits of remaining in.

I have no argument with MPs and Ministers joining either side of the debate on a personal level, but the government should be neutral and accept the result. It should not be trying to influence it.

ETA: Last week I e-mailed my MP, a LibDem and Remainer, complaining about all the negativity coming from the Remain camp, and I made it clear that I was on that side. Thus far I have had no reply, and I do not expect one.

[Suff]

Don't expect one WM either. He'll be keeping his head down as much as possible.

Just like the last time over the EEC, Aggers, the official government position is to remain. Therefore the government see's it as it's duty to inform you of why. I guess I can't argue with that, if the duly elected government has a position to remain in the EU, but is willing to give us an open and free vote as to whether we'd like to leave,, then it's actually their responsibility to let us know whey they want us to remain.

In fact if they did not, then the remainers would be quite right to demand why not.

Also the fact that the sitting government has allowed it's members to differ from the official government line is also correct, where a free vote should allow members to differ in their personal viewpoint.

What is wrong, in my opinion, is this horribly poisonous atmosphere of back biting and assumed betrayal when people voice their valid concerns that the government is actually on the wrong track. This, to me, is part and parcel of the entire negativity which is turning people off.

For those of us who took note and followed closely the Scottish referendum, this was also exactly what was going on. Labour was making a total hash of it and completely poisoning the water. Enough so that the SNP were really beginning to draw ahead towards the end of the campaign.

In the Scottish referendum there were three specific dynamics which finally drove the vote.

1. There were and are to this day, significant numbers of English in Scotland who don't want it to break with the Union
2. There are way more EU citizens in Scotland than Salmond had a clue about (note NI numbers and HMRC figures) and he made the critical mistake of giving them a vote
3. There remained significant doubts about the ability of Scotland to stand on it's own without massive impact to employment and wealth. The "soft core" independence voters were swayed by the three stooges 11th hour deal to give Scotland a lot of what it would have gained with independence. Pretty much at a price of being locked out of some of Westminster dealings. The backlash was terrible (as we have seen), but the deal was done.

So if we look at the Brexit referendum, points 1 and 2 are moot. Yes the Scots are mainly for the EU, but they are a known quantity (we think). The EU citizens will have no vote.

If things look really, really, bad in the polls come May, I fully expect that the EU will sit back and try to browbeat us with ever increasing fear mongering and statements of total rejection of our wishes and stories of total doom and gloom.

There will be no 11th hour "deal" in the referendum to "fix" the result. Leave are already surging in the polls and continue to gain strength, whilst remain voters tend to be amongst the "self disenfranchised", non voters who leave everything to someone else.

I have no idea how it's all going to end up, but it's not looking good for remain right now. We shall have to see how that holds up.