As for that promise?

[Suff]

They ahve to get it past parliament.
By the sounds of things they are having the lie to their words being exposed on the very day they produced them....

No matter what the leaders say, what Parliament votes on is what counts. Something a whole lot of Scots are very familiar with. I just hope they read the news and remember it.

It would be fun though, to watch all 3 leaders lose a vote of confidence.... Wouldn't it? But still not worth a No vote.

[Rodo]

Do you know, I have always been interested in politics, but quite honestly I am just sick of the whole sorry setup now.

They can all go and boil their heads now for all I care. Whatever happens in the vote this week or the election next year, I'm sure it won't affect me much one way or another apart from costing me more money.

[debih]

Do you know, I have always been interested in politics, but quite honestly I am just sick of the whole sorry setup now.

They can all go and boil their heads now for all I care. Whatever happens in the vote this week or the election next year, I'm sure it won't affect me much one way or another apart from costing me more money.

Lol. That's exactly how I'm starting to feel Rodo.

Let them build a bloody Great Wall to keep the British out if that's how they feel.

[shazsha]

Do you know, I have always been interested in politics, but quite honestly I am just sick of the whole sorry setup now.

They can all go and boil their heads now for all I care. Whatever happens in the vote this week or the election next year, I'm sure it won't affect me much one way or another apart from costing me more money.

Lol. That's exactly how I'm starting to feel Rodo.

Let them build a bloody Great Wall to keep the British out if that's how they feel.

To my knowledge, there are at least two Scottish people on this board and none of us have ever implied that we want the British kept out. Poll is a No voter which means she wants to remain as part of the UK and, although I cant speak for her, I assume this means she doesn't want the British kept out of Scotland.

Speaking for myself I certainly wouldn't want to see a wall keeping British citizens out of Scotland and my family, who live in other parts of the UK, certainly wouldn't want to see it.

I actually don't like the turn this debate has taken so will bow out now and go debate boiling my head.

[Suff]

And this is just it isn't it.

Well all I say is this. The only way you will ever understand what this is about is if Scotland, Wales and Ireland were given an 80% vote in Westminster, to do as they saw fit with finances, benefits and economy, for a full 5 year term.

Then and only then, might some English begin to understand what this is all about.

This is about personal democracy; not whatever Westminster chooses to give us with a gun to their head.

But enough. I'm with Shaz. See you on Friday. Because, you know, most of the English will not even understand the utter ludicrous nature of this article. It's beyond a joke. It's beyond farce. If it is actually true, the people involved in it need to be sacked. Either for incompetence or for a bald faced attempt to use money to bribe a democratic election.

I wonder how many will even recognise the absolute farce of the whole article?

[Workingman]

Shaz and Suff, on the other thread I said that I have lost interest, and I have, but not because of what has been said on VV. On here we have had an open, robust and mainly respectful debate where we have questioned and pushed for answers. My ire is with what I have seen in the wider media.

The BBC, Sky, ITN, DM ,Herald and Post have all given the politicians an easy ride, depending on their own persuasions. And they have all been biased in their reporting: it has not been a one-way street. However, it is down in their blogs and comments sections where the true feelings, of at least many of those posting, lie. Some of the sentiments, insults and outright threats that I have read have sickened me and I will not absolve one side or the other. They, none of them, get my support and I will not pin my colours to their masts. They, and only they, are the reason I have lost interest.

When I awake on Friday there we be a result..... que sera, sera.

[Rodo]

I will start to gain interest again when we have an equal rights for England campaign under way.

[Rodo]

Incidentally, when I said they could all go and boil their heads - I meant all the politicians as well as the Scottish ones.

[medsec222]

Equal rights for the English. Now there's a good idea

[Suff]

One last post. Then I promise, Friday.

I know I have very Nationalist tendencies for Scotland. Unusual for a natural Tory Voter with strong Scots links. I would have been able to vote on this back in 2009.

WM I recognise what you are saying and remember I talked about the relationship turning abusive on both sides. There is no excuse for the bad behaviour being exposed here but it will continue until they get it out of their system. I worry that a No vote will cause serious bad blood for a very long time to come. Those who have really studied the Yes case know the level of deceit being pushed out by the No. It causes tempers to flare.

I have increasingly felt guilty that I'm overriding the whole board right now, but I'm so incandescently angry at a lot of what is being said and being done, by the No press and the No campaign (I hope I have not burned anyone here too badly with my ire), that I find it hard to shut up about it. If you want to talk about election rigging, the outright lies flying around at the moment are the best example of it ever. Sadly it seems to be the norm now to say what you want people to believe and then leave them with the harsh light of reality the morning after.

Granted SNP is not being 100% straight. But then again in the face of the blatant and extremely large lies being told by the No campaign; what can they do? They must paint a picture much more optimistic than is really there so that people can discount half of it in the face of the No campaign propaganda and get even a small amount of perspective.

Rodo, did you ever consider that the only way England is going to get fair representation for England only issues in Westminster is if Scotland votes Yes? Everyone who wants a fair and undivided vote for England in Westminster should be in support of a Scottish Yes vote. Those Labour MP's are so bitter and twisted in Scotland that they will skip no opportunity to throw a spanner in the works of England only legislation in Westminster. If you think this will get better with a No vote, think again. It will get much, much, much worse. Especially when the 80+% of English MP's renege on the "extra powers and finances" for Scotland being promised by all three leaders.

I've heard so much in anger here about the poor way which Scots MP's have acted in Westminster (absent the One Tory who has always acted with honour on this), on England only issues, I would have thought that everyone would understand that a Yes vote in Scotland would redress that situation.

Everyone is talking about some kind of armed camps pointing at each other post secession. Yet everyone seems to forget that Scotland will still have the Queen as head of state. All the press and media are talking up some kind of massive border between Scotland and England, yet there is no border between Northern and Southern Ireland and pretty much anyone can pass freely between them and then take a ferry from Larne or Belfast into the mainland. Suddenly we expect that Scotland will have less links with rUK than Australia. Australia who forces English to get a visa to visit. Australia who enacts their own laws without sanction from the Queen. Scotland will still need the Queen to enact laws.

The union of the crowns happened some 100 years before the union of the parliaments and it was only the petty nature of the lords who, vying to cut each other down let alone another country, that blocked trade.

In a modern world where people actually elect their masters and can, if needed, cast them out, it should be totally possible to work together for the benefit of all countries on this Island. In fact a large chunk of petulance seems to be driving those who bitterly complain about the actions of the Scots, to demand they stay in this Union they so often abuse. Just what exactly is that? A Yes vote would set both sides free. A Yes vote with the support of rUK and an agreement to work together after would benefit both.

So what is this massive uprising of "Save the Union", "Keep the Scots"? Is it ire at the loss of a possession? Because what this vote says is that somewhere around about half of them don't like being in a direct union with England. Or is it the los of power that the rUK will find after a loss of Scotland?

Trust me on this. The Yes vote has been driven by English Parliamentary actions. Now both parties need to accept that once Pandora's question box is opened, we should move on, shut the box again and start to work as equals in an independent world.

This view is something you are not going to see in the press or in the comments. It's far too balanced. I see three schoolchildren squabbling in the playground over a bag of marbles they don't own. I see the real owner telling them to let go of the marbles and go and squabble amongst themselves.

I just hope the Scots see the same on Thursday. For all our sakes.

That's me till Friday. Have a good two days and I'll be back.