German Cabinet approves landmark bill to liberalise cannabis

[Suff]

I read today.

When I was in BC, Canada on holiday, there were Cannabis shops everywhere.

Personal experience with family members is that Cannabis is not a "benign" as the campaigners claim.

I guess it's coming to the UK some time. Hopefully not when I'm alive.

[Workingman]

Suff, if you watch programmes such as Police Interceptors or Traffic Cops you will see that it is already the de facto case in the UK.

Drivers are pulled over for whatever reason. They have a spliff, a wrap or two in their pockets and more in the car. Unless they fail a drug swipe they are generally let off with a caution or community order and an on-the-spot fine because it is pointless taking them to court to get the same "punishment".

Yes, it is against the law to to possess, distribute, sell or grow cannabis, but the law is so regularly flouted that the courts could never keep up. About 65% of all drugs offences are down to cannabis.

Even when homes are raided and tens of plants are found in the loft the people involved only get fines and suspended sentences and maybe a curfew - only major transgressors get time in jail. We have essentially already given up.

[Suff]

I know, but it is still illegal.

The next step in the "we couldn't be bothered to police it" is to just leagalise it and thrown the problems on the NHS.

Germany and Canada have a mostly privatised health service where the point of treatment is not free. The impact of legalising these drugs for these countries is significantly less than the impact on the UK.

[Workingman]

Suff, I did say that (Class C) is still illegal, and I am not remotely suggesting they are made legal. There are some potential harsh penalties - up to 2 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both for possession; and up to 14 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both for supply and production

Unfortunately the reality is much different.

The other week on the show a car was stopped for a tail light out. When the officer got to the car it stank of weed so he got the driver and passenger out for a quick roadside check and search. Both had wraps of weed on them so the driver was taken for a drug swipe. He failed. Meanwhile the car was searched and bags containing 30 - 40 wraps were found along with £thousands of cash. They were dealing.

Their house was searched. Three other men were there along with medical grade scales and other lab paraphernalia as well as ten or more cannabis plants in the loft.

No action was taken against the three in the house because it could not be (legally)proved they were part off the deal. The passenger was given a fine and ordered to do many hours of unpaid work. The driver was found to be banned so got an extra 12 month ban to be served once his present one, which he was ignoring, was served. It meant he was also driving while uninsured. For the drugs he was fined and given a 14 month sentence - he'll be out in seven.

That's why I say law enforcers have virtually given up. The punishments are there but we do not have the physical infrastructure (prisons) to impose them.

[Workingman]

Double post.

[Suff]

Suff, I did say that (Class C) is still illegal, and I am not remotely suggesting they are made legal. There are some potential harsh penalties - up to 2 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both for
That's why I say law enforcers have virtually given up. The punishments are there but we do not have the physical infrastructure (prisons) to impose them.

You are right. These are not punishments, they deter nothing.

Hence they start with decriminalising lower classes of drugs. Certainly this sucks a whole ton of money out of the drugs market which is used to bring in and distribute stronger drugs. But it doesn't do the public a service and especially parents who don't want their children pulled into this culture.

I'm reminded of Vietnam. The problem with drugs was so bad that the US claimed it could never be fixed.

Enter the communist Vietnamese. No problem fixing the issue. They just executed all the dealers. Problem solved. Until they started political reforms to join the community of democratic nations. Then the heroin started to crawl back in.

I was just reading an article which talked about Transnational organised crimes. Total value $1tn. With wishy washy sentencing and punishments countries are going to get rolled flat by this volume of money.

[cromwell]

You smell it everywhere now. There is someone down this street who smokes it.
The police know of a person dealing in the village; four years later he's still here and still dealing. This I found out at a Parish Council meeting.

[Workingman]

When I first moved here nearly 20 years ago the neighbour across the road was Zelda in her late 70s.

She had every gadget imaginable and one day it was "The Ashes are on the big screen, come on over".

When I walked through the door it hit me - weed! One the windowsill were four beautifully topiaried cannabis plants.

"Zelda, you do know what these are".
"Oh yes dear, they help with my arthritis.

I wonder how many 'amateur' cultivators and users are out there?

[cromwell]

In the 70's an acquiantance was playing rugby at quite a high level. On a tour of the USA and Canada he discovered that weed has pain easing qualities.
Which comes in handy when your body is getting a battering every Saturday.
Pity he was still smelling of weed when the Chairman of Selectors got in the lift with him...

Nevertheless, weed since those days has got many times more powerful (skunk).
We just have a drugs problem because as Suff says, there isn't the political will to tackle the problem. Same with illegal immigration, no political will to tackle the problem.

[Workingman]

We just have a drugs problem because as Suff says, there isn't the political will to tackle the problem

And that trickles down to those who are trying to cope with things on the streets - the courts and the cops. They are not given the tools. As I said earlier the punishments can be quite harsh but they are rarely delivered because of the shortage of custodial place.

If I go to Burley or Harehills - two of the poorest areas of Leeds - I see Audi A3s and BMWs driven by young lads (Asians and blacks mainly) who are not in the sorts of jobs to support such expensive motors. The cops know this and so do the lads, which is why the cars are totally legit - tax, MOT, insurance. These people do everything to stay clean because they are at the top. It is those further down the food chain who do the dealing on the streets. They are the ones who are caught and they do not care as they have nothing to lose.