Starmer starts his bid for 2024

[Suff]

So he's going to get rid of the Lords and he's going to give a "louder voice" for Scotland.

He needs to be a bit more specific on that because the Lords are not usually Turkeys voting for Christmas and they can block it I guess.

Also giving Scotland a "louder voice" is not that much of a vote winner in England and the Scots have decided that they have the loudest vote of all with the SNP.

[cromwell]

Oh God, I think Nicola Sturgeon's voiceisloud enough already.

Starmer wants all those Scottish labour votes back.

If no non-mainstream party stands around here inthe next GE, I'm not voting. And that will be for the first time since I became eligible to vote.

[Workingman]

Ah bless! I guess that some people do not like democracy and prefer to have us ruled by people who just happened to be born or are a religious leader (Bishop) but only of one particular faith, or are a crony gifted their position by some outgoing PM.

I like the idea. Thankfully I do not have to break my fast and vote Labour for the very first time since I got the vote in 1971 as my MP is Labour. If they weren't, and will be again after the next GE, I might be tempted.

[Suff]

It is not that I don't like democracy. I just happen to think that the current "democracy" will fight for its own survival and Starmer may have a much harder time than he thinks.

As for Scotland having a stronger voice? Well, of course, I'm all for that. But it won't bring Starmer many more Labour votes in Scotland but it may cost him significant votes in England, as most English think that Scotland already has far too much say in English affairs.

The Scots are pretty much all done with Labour and it has a much to do with the Lib Lab coalitions in Holyrood as it does with England and the English. Honestly there is so much said about PR but the PR we've seen in Scotland has lead to such a backlash that the SNP has gained a control of Scotland that could never have been envisioned before.

In the coalitions I've seen the only thing that tends to happen is one of the partners takes the blame for everything. Thus leading to a slightly different coalition next time. Democracy at it's finest!

[cromwell]

It does puzzle me why Labour got Gordon Brown in to do this magnum opus?
He crashed and burned as PM but here he is again, going on about devolution.

Devolution to me is a farce. The people of Manchester are asked in a vote if they want a Mayor. No, they didn't, but they got one anyway. This is our "democracy". We, the political class, know what's best.

What has devolution done in Scotland and Wales? Encouraged the growth of rabidly anti-English sentiments whilst the English taxpayer pays for the existence of the hate peddlers, their nice offices and their hangers on.

But the worst bit about devolution is Labour's plans to devolve money raising powers to local councils.
WM, you know my opinion of Wakefield council. The idea of this lot being given powers to tax the locals is frankly enough to chill the blood.

Especially when you consider that "The report proposes devolving power in sectors including transport and infrastructure, giving councils powers for the compulsory purchase of vacant sites and creating a new regionally focused investment bank".

So we will end up as car drivers being taxed to provide cycle lanes that nobody uses.
Wakefield council.. compulsory purchase...regional bank...
It will be an absolute disaster.

Wakey council is headed up by a lady councillor who used to be a hairdresser. Previously it was a bloke who was a solicitor's clerk but wanted to join the society of Labour lawyers.

Wakefiled council couldn't be trusted to run a bath, never mind be trusted with raising and spending money - on anything.

[Suff]

It does puzzle me why Labour got Gordon Brown in to do this magnum opus?
What has devolution done in Scotland

Here I can tell you. Several infrastructure projects including the new Forth crossing, the dual carriageway extensions on the A1 south, multiple and significant dualling on the A9, the most dangerous road in Scotland. Not one mile of that road was dualled under Westminster. The Aberdeen bypass. There is also the Edinburgh tram system and the park and rides around it. But this one cost so much and was such a disaster to deliver it didn't go down too well.

This is just the East coast. There is more in the west. What devolution did for Scotland was to focus money where the Scots needed it. Note no more development on the M74 up the west coast where Westminster wants the traffic. Now it snarls up on the A1 after Morpeth until the English segment is completed.

After decades of funding being directed by Westminster the Scottish government has become extremely popular simply by spending the money where Scotland needs it and not England.

Don't be too disparaging about this. It drives a LOT of votes.

[cromwell]

Here I can tell you. Several infrastructure projects including the new Forth crossing, the dual carriageway extensions on the A1 south, multiple and significant dualling on the A9, the most dangerous road in Scotland. Not one mile of that road was dualled under Westminster. The Aberdeen bypass. There is also the Edinburgh tram system and the park and rides around it. But this one cost so much and was such a disaster to deliver it didn't go down too well.

This is just the East coast. There is more in the west. What devolution did for Scotland was to focus money where the Scots needed it.

Now that's interesting Suff, because this is all news to me. I can see the attraction here.

[Suff]

Now that's interesting Suff, because this is all news to me. I can see the attraction here.

You don't get this news. It will be the same in both Wales and NI although NI has different issues.

My son lives well up the A9 about 40 miles from Aviemore. I have driven this road a lot and the changes made by the Scottish Government are dramatic and they are still ongoing. The plan is to fully dual the A9 to Inverness. Also the road south of Edinburgh which I've been on all my life as my parents always came up this way. That change is, in many ways, even more dramatic.

People who use these roads every day are aware, every day, that without devolution they would still be struggling.

[Workingman]

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

It is not so much about devolving issues locally, although that is desirable, but more about making the second chamber scrutiny on the HoC more democratic, and also making the decision process more locally based.

It's bad enough that the parties parachute their favoured ones into winnable seats above the wishes of local without Tony, Gordon, Dave, Theresa, Boris and Liz then promoting their mates to the HoL.

Give me a vote anytime.

[medsec222]

I totally agree Frank. And the House of Lords is far too big, over 800 at present I believe. It should be reduced by threequarters to around 200 and made up of a mixture of businessmen and professionals who are prepared to work and do the job - not by grace and favour of the incumbent Prime Minister.