Britain signs defence/aid treaties with Finland and Sweden

[Suff]

I did offer an alternative. The alternative is stand tall, look ready, keep a hand on the tiller and make sure he knows that he simply cannot survive leading any attack beyond what he is currently doing.

You think this is too risky. I think talking to him is both useless and even more risky as it sends the wrong message.

Poles apart. I must admit I thought it took us two world wars to understand that the most risky thing you could possibly do is stand around wringing your hands and deploring attacks on your neighbours. We learned, supposedly forever, that standing up and saying "Look sonny if you want to survive this just get back in your box", is far preferable to standing around saying "you really shouldn't be doing that, let's talk".

[Workingman]

The alternative is stand tall, look ready, keep a hand on the tiller and make sure he knows that he simply cannot survive leading any attack beyond what he is currently doing.

Ha, how very clichéd, and it implies that he can stand tall and survive so long as he does not go beyond what he is currently doing. Great plan.

You, s p plural, have said you want to remove Putin or give him a bloody nose, but not explained how you would do it. You have not said who would take over, nor how, You have also not mentioned how you would prevent an escalation if your plan(?) failed or even if you effected regime change because you have no guarantees that the alternatives would be better

It's all bluff and bluster without any detail. The truth is that you hard nuts have no idea what to do about Putin and his cadre.

[Suff]

Actually if I recall correctly I have said.

- I think it is a bad idea to put a hit on Putin. Sanctioning that kind of thing spreads and it is bad news
- Putin cannot survive losing in Ukraine
- Putin may be determined to do something desperate if he is pushed out of Ukraine.
- We cannot and will not allow Putin to win in Ukraine. So the immediate above means we have to be prepared to deal with a desperate act
- That creeping around on tip toes, suing for peace at talks will send the wrong message. The message that we are more interested in peace than we are in stopping this kind of aggression in the future
- That I do not believe that Russia can be rewarded by getting part of Ukraine as a benefit of attacking Ukraine and that talks cannot be allowed to cede part of Ukraine to Russia
- That Russia will not conclude talks without retaining part of Ukraine and that Ukraine will not conclude talks without Russia leaving the country totally

I've also said that we need our full forces, nuclear and conventional, at a higher state of readiness and primed to defend against further Russian aggression.

That's how I see it. Which is why talks are useless and bowing down to Russia and Putin in any way will be counter productive and cause more damage and deaths.

The fastest way to get rid of Putin is to drive Russia out of Ukraine and then write a mutual assistance treaty with Ukraine and put NATO troops into Ukraine. Meaning that Russia has to go head to head with NATO if they want to start this again.

I don't think anything above is unrealistic bluff, bluster or being a hard nut. I believe it is hard won experience from two world wars and a decades long cold war with the USSR.

On the other hand I see your position on talking as wanting to give Russia part of Ukraine to get some vague semblance of peace. We did that once already, we let them keep Crimea. Today we see where that got us.