A nation divided?

[Workingman]

Recently we have had the 'B' thing, then Covid and now the BLM protests, and they have all opened up dangerous divisions.

We have always had left and right, pros and cons, and conservative and liberal (attitudes not politics), but my God they have all become so extreme and intolerant. Facts do not matter any more, only opinions count, and if you do not agree with 'our' opinion you are (pick your own expletive) and 'we' will shout you down with 'ism' and 'ist' cards until you crawl back under your rocks and keep quiet.

I have never known a time like it and it is not and easy situation to cope with. It is not all down to 'fake news', (un)social media and biased media reporting, either. There is something else going on and I cannot put my finger on it.

[TheOstrich]

An outbreak of left wing biased activism, as a follow-on from the success of Momentum? The Tommy Robinson brigade are pretty quiet at the moment, so you can't really blame the fascists.

The polarisation and vocalisation of the nation's youth? Following on from successful climate change / eco protests.

Interference and destabilisation by foreign powers? Russia, China, the EU ....

You set the ball rolling and see where it finishes up.

[cromwell]

my God they have all become so extreme and intolerant. Facts do not matter any more, only opinions count, and if you do not agree with 'our' opinion you are (pick your own expletive) and 'we' will shout you down with 'ism' and 'ist' cards until you crawl back under your rocks and keep quiet.

A lot of people can't think any more. If their beliefs are challenged they have no capacity for logic and reason and evidence; they descend immediately into a furious rage.
The universities bear some responsibiities for this; they should be helping students develop their capacity for debate but instead prevent speakers they don't like from speaking and shut down debate with "safe spaces" where beliefs cannot be challenged.

Also the sneering and heroically biased TV news. I've given up watching it, it's so bad. They don't do news but propaganda and everything is seen through the lens of their own bias.
The BLM lot are "mostly peaceful protesters"; when Extinction Rebellion shut down Leeds last year the coppers looked the other way. If that had been Tommy Robinson and the EDL the police would have been in there making arrests.

The justice system has been politicised. The media has been politicised. Only one set of views is acceptable - theirs.

Yes we are a divided nation and we will go on being so. The B word showed the divisions and the B word isn't finished yet because powerful remainers haven't given up.

The BLM demos show we are divided too. The media falling over themselves to provide excuses for police being assaulted and criminal damage being committed. I don't believe their pusillanimous creeping is liked by most of their audience.

Rant over.

[Workingman]

Take any subject you like and there have always been differing views. The extremes have rarely been persuaded to change theirs, but for the vast majority they have been able to express theirs and be listened to. There was debate, and some minds were changed.

Nowadays intolerance and confrontation rule - it's my way or the highway, suck it up, loser.

I do agree that it is partly down to education and the ability to analyse, comprehend and reason, but that does not explain why so many have become so entrenched in their views and opinions. And is is not just down to a few 'cause célèbres' of the day - BLM, 'B', ER, CC / AGW, Trans - it is every damned subject imaginable. Points scoring means everything.

The plot is well and truly lost.

[cromwell]

Yes, it's absolutism. Not only am I right, I am absolutely right therefore you must be absolutely wrong - no debate is needed.
Certain subjects have been placed beyond debate; as being unquestionably good. Maybe that was the start of the current absolutism?
Diversity is unquestionably good. Any questioning of trans rights is "transphobia". Etc etc.
One thing does occur. I've had it with all the "activists" who refuse to quiet down and maybe listen to someone else for a change; and I don't think I'm alone.
So may we end up with a populist, authoritarian government one day? Because right now a politician who promised to shut these yapping nuisances up, to rid the police of political control, to introduce freedom of speech and abolition of "hate speech" laws, to reintroduce the riot act - they would certainly get my vote.

[cromwell]

We have certainly entered another galaxy, when you think about it.
Take the grooming gangs. It was going on. It was known to be going on. But the theory was - there are only benefits from diversity.
So when you get evidence that says well, actually this might be a downside to diversity, what happens.
You end up in a situation where an inconvenient truth is supressed; where criminals are protected, where victims are further victimised by the state's willful inaction and where whistleblowers are intimidated.
To recap - the truth contradicts the theory, so the state suppresses the truth, protects the criminals and abandons the victims.

In a way it is the same with the Trans debate.
The truth is that there are only two genders. Everything else is just self identification. Which I don't mind; if you want to tell me that you identify as a toaster or a sideboard that's fine. Just don't expect me to believe it, because it isn't true.
But when someone like Germaine Greer or JK Rowling point out that a trans woman isn't in fact a woman - uproar. Accusations of transphobia.
Again, the truth is attacked and an obvious truth held to be a lie.

So if we are living in a country where truth is suppressed because it contradicts a theory - and we are - then we are on a bit of a slippery slope.

To get back on topic, how did we get here?
I would suggest we would know more if we knew who funds Black Lives Matter, Trans activists and a number of other extremely vocal "activists".

[Suff]

Personally I think that total inaction on destruction of municipal property because the protesters "don't like it" is a very slippery slope to a very dangerous place.

If they are not prosecuted, then how do you prosecute someone for tearing down many other monuments. After all our forefathers were totally unacceptable bigots and monsters by current values.

I try not to get excercised about it. I'm just waiting until an EDL rally gets prosecuted for defacement and damage to a monument. Then let the games begin about precedents set.

Personally I'm still waiting for the recognition of the hundreds of knife murders of Black citizens in the UK over the last few years.

Don't their lives matter? Apparently not.

[cromwell]

Personally I think that total inaction on destruction of municipal property because the protesters "don't like it" is a very slippery slope to a very dangerous place.

If they are not prosecuted, then how do you prosecute someone for tearing down many other monuments.

It's what I said Suff, the justice system has become politicised.
The police are under the direct political control of politicians; either elected metro mayors or police and crime commissioners who are overwhelmingly ex-councillors.

They are deciding which laws to implement and which not to. The late Ron Hogg, PCC for the north east said the police shouldn't try to solve drug crime by arresting drug users. My local PCC declined to give the name of men charged with child sexual offences, because their community is a block vote for his party.

The justice system is not impartial any more. Quangos, those "independent" bodies, are stuffed with b-list ex-poiticians.

As a country we have left impartiality behind and bias has taken it's place.