Just being curious - what do you think will happen .....

[Workingman]

I do sympathise with that view, but how do we go about it? Wanting is one thing, delivering it is quite another. Answers on a £multi-billion note.

A few (factual) stats thrown out by the hard-line supporters of the view open my eyes and should open everyone's:

* 9 out of 10 deaths are of those with one or more underlying health problems - cardio, diabetes COPD etc ...
* 75% of deaths are OAPs or the over 65s.
* 50% are aged 80+

We all know what they are hinting at but don't have the cojones to come out and say it, so I will. The majority of those dying are economically inactive, and have had a good innings, even in normal times. During this pandemic crisis we should let (some of) them go for the good of the rest of us.

Deep down many of us are extremely worried about the economy, not just for ourselves but for our children and grand children, and we desperately want it up and running again, but to do that something has to give. At the moment our humanity keeps us from doing what I have mentioned above, but for many it would not take much for the string to be broken....

We might not like them, but those thoughts are out there.

[Suff]

WM my parents are in their 80's. So this is a real thing for me. I won't get back into work again until the lock down is removed and a few months have passed to let things settle. So I see this from a pragmatic level. I have a lot to lose, but it does not blind me to the reality of the situation.

At some point the viewpoint pendulum will change and the population will begin to see the current situation as holding the entire economy hostage for a relatively small number of older people who might just survive it.

When that viewpoint changes and people start to see more lives lost to economic chaos than those which might be lost to the virus, we can expect things to get a bit tense.

Oddly one of the strongest deterrents to this viewpoint is that Trump shares it.

[Workingman]

Suff, what I am saying is that the pendulum is already swinging.

Go look at the comments sections of some papers and the BBC. You will not only see those stats given above you will also see calls for special wards for the old and infirm with Covid-19; places where they can be left to die peacefully. You will see calls for care homes and hospices to be totally quarantined - clients and carers - nobody in and nobody out, but with food and medicine parcels delivered. You will see calls for patients to be moved to Nightingale hospitals so that Covid-19 patients can be treated in "proper" hospitals or vice-versa. Then there are calls for older people to be locked in their own homes 'till this is over' and, again, with food and medicines delivered, but with a call every day to make sure they are OK.

People have convinced themselves that these ideas are practical solutions. Do them and all will be fine, but will it?

It's certainly not my choice of the way to go.

[Kaz]

My mum-in-law is 83, has COPD, and her life is as precious as anyone else's.

[miasmum]

My mother in law is 82 and luckily has no underlying health issues, but she is still 82. I think the elderly that are at home should continue to be quarantined to an extent. Myself and tim are looking after my mother in law on our own. we are both working, so completely shielding her isn't an option but I would not want her going out to supermarkets or the hair dresser at the moment. but I do think her friends that are in the same boat should be able to visit her. they are quarantined the same as she is. she still drives, she could drive over the friends quite easily and have a coffee with them. I think that should be one of the first things to be lifted that the quarantined should be able to mix with other quarantined. blimey this sounds so much like a science fiction movie 'the quarantined'

[Workingman]

Today's mood music is that with Bojo back at No 10 tomorrow (today!) we could be heading for a staged relaxation within the next week or two. Now that might just be the media playing to the gallery or it might happen. It is my preferred option, as I have already said, but I would like the government to closely monitor Italy and, Spain to see how their relaxation strategies are working whilst it also works on various other plans - not just one plan. That is what France appears to be doing.

We are about two weeks behind them as far as the pandemic's progression is concerned so there is no rush from that point of view.

[Suff]

My mum-in-law is 83, has COPD, and her life is as precious as anyone else's.

She certainly is Kaz. However what WM and I are talking about is something else. It is best seen where a young child is caught in a rip tide and 3 men jump I to rescue the child but only one gets back with the child.

However, we're this a situation where 100 children were in trouble over several hours and the body count trying to save them was rising, self preservation starts to kick in and people look for another way, including asking themselves why the children were there and why they should spend their lives to rescue them.

This is even more poignant when the "them" become old people who are precious to a few, but of little value to the whole, where saving them may drag the whole down.

I recognise the comments WM, but this is far from a trend, yet, but it will be soon if things continue as they are. Eventually some in the press or media will break ranks and then the raging arguments will begin.

I need to find a way to get Mrs S antibody tested as it is highly likely she had this in the 3 weeks I was not home in Feb and she was totally knocked out. It kicked her off her feet for 6 weeks and that is the first time in nearly 35 years I have seen that.

[Kaz]

I totally get what you're saying, but I'm not keen on serving up the old and vulnerable "for the common good"

[Workingman]

I would just like to point out that I do not support what the hard-liners of breaking the lockdown are saying, but I cannot hide away from the fact that those things are being said, it would be folly to do so.

I also agree with Suff that it will only take one or two media outlets to break ranks for the whole house of cards to come crashing down. In my other post I mentioned the mood music and the media either being truthful or playing to the gallery. It now looks as though playing to the gallery it was, but that also shows the thought processes some are going through.

Bojo says these are dangerous times and that we are at maximum risk, and I agree with him, but I also recognise that the times they are a-changing. We must all hope those changes, when they come, are the right ones.

[victor]

I know of a Nurse who is on a Covid 19 ward and she has said that the time will have to come when the older generation might/will have to be left out of treatment to save the younger generation.

No I don't agree but I think it will come