When you find yourself in a hole and can't get out

[Suff]

Don't POLISH THE SIDES.

Since the referendum on the EU, those who want to remain in the EU have found themselves in a hole which they find impossible to get out of. What have they been doing? Polishing the sides with ever increasing vigour.

The latest incarnation of this industrious activity?

Two things.

First the absolute DEMAND that the UK government change nothing of consequence when Parliament is prorogued.
Second, the courting of Corbyn to get him to announce he will call a vote of confidence in the government, immediately followed by the demand that he NOT be PM of a unity government.

Let's be honest here. There is one thing almost everyone in government and a majority of the country CAN agree on. They don't want Corbyn in #10 downing street.

So let us think a little bit longer term than the sound bites and petty scheming going on today.

October 31st is the exit date written into UK Law. It was decided by the whole parliament and acted on by the PM.

Should the little mutiny of MP's bring down the government, then fail to put in a unity government in its place (highly likely), then the PM will call an election, set the date for beyond October 31st and shut down parliament.

At this point no significant business, not already pre agreed, can be carried out.

So let's be clear here.

Leaving the EU on October 31st is pre agreed.
The current EU deal on the table to leave with a deal has been rejected 3 times.
Creating a new deal would be deemed "significant new business" and could not be entered into by a government with a prorogued parliament.

In other words if Corbyn goes ahead with his proposed vote of no confidence, one significant possibility is a No Deal Brexit where nobody can do anything about it, even if the EU comes back with a really tempting offer.

So, watch this space. By the third week it could all be over bar the inexorable moves to prepare the country to leave without a deal.

Bunch of wasters, the lot of them.

[Workingman]

Alternatively...

4 / 5th Sept: vote of no confidence is accepted - 14 days to form a government - it fails

19th Sept: new GE announced - 25 working days hence

17th Oct: new government is formed giving plenty of time to revoke A50

You quitflakes are running scared shitless that your undemocratic, planless and voteless no-deal can't be dictatorially imposed on the rest of us. You know that if the opposition can come up with a plan it has the numbers to kill no-deal dead, hence all the tiny tot screaming, shouting and foot stamping.

Bless.

[AliasAggers]

[Workingman]

Sorry, Aggers, but proroguing parliament in order to force through legislation that changes the constitution and is not supported by the majority in the country or in parliament is not funny, it is treasonous.

Every legal method available has to be used to prevent it.

[Suff]

Yep, you're right. I think Corbyn should run the country as part of a government of "unity", for at least 6 months. Who would hold the balance of power? The SNP. Well at least until they have a vote of independence again...

Honestly, I'd love it. The Labour party would NEVER EVER survive it. Then we could get back to triggering A50 again and getting the hell out of the EU.

Think I'm being OTT? Well that is your right.

Let's be blunt here. Any Tory MP who votes against the Tories and brings down the government, to then have another government with ANY other PM but a Tory PM, will be deselected forthwith. So they may bring down the government but it will only result in an election.

If Boris sets the date for an election it will be beyond October 31st.

I have absolutely no personal fear either way for this whole debacle. Which I lay at the feet of May not Cameron. Either way I don't care what happens. Brexit is bad for me, I see it as good for the country. Remain is very good for me, I see it as bad for the country. I don't care, remember I didn't vote and, unlike all those whingers in France, I never expected to leave the country and then tell you what you should do because it would hurt me.

The only thing I anticipate is that politics in the UK will become exceptionally unstable if Brexit doesn't happen. If you want to understand what ignoring the people, just because you can, looks like, Sweden is a good place to start. Sweden Democrats, blatantly neo Nazi, from less than 0.5% of the vote to the third largest party in the country and vying for second place.

You want that? Then just let these Remain MP's overrule the will of the people. Then let the games begin. I can guarantee you that nobody will be happy with that eventuality. I can also guarantee you that it will never go away. Just like the SNP is embedded into Scottish politics an the SD is now embedded into Swedish politics.

There are worse things than leaving the EU. Corbyn is one of them. Farage taking 20% of the vote is another.

As I said to my son on the weekend... "I vote for Anarchy, it's the only thing the UK deserves today. Perhaps if they experience enough Anarchy then they'll actually vote for what they do want instead of voting against what they don't."

Unless you missed it, it is quite clear that Westminster does not know what it wants. It knows what it doesn't and that is to do what the people told them to. As for knowing what they want? Every indicative vote failed.

Yet you think they will create a "Government of Unity"? You think Corbyn will step down and allow someone else to be PM? It is the ONLY way he'll ever preside over #10 as he will never be elected there.

I leave you with another thought. The SNP's last best hope of Independence is for the UK to leave the EU with Hard Brexit. If the fish supports a government of national unity and stops Brexit, you can forget that independence happening.

[Workingman]

Brexit is bad for me, I see it as good for the country.

Is that because you are a Brit living and working in / from the EU? You do know that there is a solution to your problem of not benefiting from all the wonderful things you say will happen in the post Brexit UK.....

Remain is very good for me, I see it as bad for the country.

What? There are positives to the EU? And, what's more, you will be able to continue to benefit from them if the UK remains a member. Well blow me down, and all this after the avalanche of negatives of the EU you have regaled us with down the years. You know, all the lies, myths, legends and fabrications from the Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph.

Never mind, eh? It looks as though you have an option to be OK regardless of what happens back home. However, when Brexit causes massive problems in the UK, and it will, even your blasted Tory government says so, millions will have no other option but to stay put and ride it out as best we can.

[AliasAggers]

I think those who are so convinced that membership of the E.U. is such a good thing
that they cannot accept gracefully the outcome of the public vote on leaving it, would
be well advised to pack their bags, go and live in mainland Europe, and leave us in peace.

[Workingman]

I am sorry, but I was born, brought up, lived and worked in England, U.K. I volunteered and served in its armed forces at the heights of the troubles in Northern Ireland and the Cold War. My parents and brother are buried here as are all of my aunts and uncles. I have every right, much more than some others, to defend it as I see fit.

England, U.K. is my home and I have every right to argue against those who would force a no-deal Brexit, one not one person voted for, upon us all. Brexit was won in an advisory referendum with a vote that was so close to call that one of Leaves leading lights, N. Farage, said that had it gone against his side 52:48 it would be "unfinished business". Well if that is good enough for him it is good enough for me.

So you will have to excuse and forgive me for not shutting up. Nor will I be packing my bags and legging it to Europe. Even if I wanted to I no longer have the wherewithal to do so and nobody is going to force me to leave against my will.

[Kaz]

Same here Frank! I don't appreciate being told to leave my own country, the one my great grandfather died fighting for. We live in a democracy as far as I am aware, not a fascist state

[Suff]

So you will have to excuse and forgive me for not shutting up. Nor will I be packing my bags and legging it to Europe. Even if I wanted to I no longer have the wherewithal to do so and nobody is going to force me to leave against my will.

WM, I would never suggest you leave. Whilst I might understand the sentiment of someone who says "well if you can't live without the EU, why don't you go live there", I understand that, for many, this is neither practical nor something they would ever entertain.

I was born in this country, have served in the armed services and have graves of family who served and died for this country; buried in the UK. I won't end my life outside the UK, I will come home eventually. Just not yet.

That being said, you live in a democracy (so they say). There was a democratic vote and people voted to leave the EU. They were told it would be bad, hard, cause economic problems and damage trade across the EU border. In the end a majority of the people who bothered to vote decided to vote for hope of a better future (after the disruption), rather than a vote of fear and just putting up with all the things they don't like so they won't have to suffer (for however short a time that is), any more than they are already.

So far the whole thing has been a basket case with the UK government taking the lions share of the blame for the whole situation. That may be about to change or the UK parliament may be about to jump into total chaos which will consume the country for at least a decade.

If anyone thinks that we can just revoke A50 and it will all just go away, think again. The genie is out of the bottle and the people of the UK have finally realised that a democracy gives you one and only ONE tool to have your government do what you want. It is called a vote. If you choose not to vote you give two votes to the person who does vote against what you want. People are aware of that and are using it.

We are now heading for one of three options.

1. The government falls, Corbyn becomes PM for a time (however short or long that is) and the political world goes apeshit
2. The government falls, there is no replacement PM and Johnson calls an election for after 31st October and we exit with no deal
3. The government does not fall, there is no deal and Johnson takes us out of the EU without a deal

Where is option 4? That's the one where the EU realises that they're not going to break the UK political system so they can get what they want and re-open their deal to fix the things the parliament can't vote for. It's not going to happen. They are more scared of a UK, free to do what it wants, than they are of breaking the German and French economies.

As the days and weeks go on, it is going to be 100-% crystal clear that the EU deal is something they are mandating to the UK and not something which has been negotiated. The difference is we have a PM who will not accept that the EU overrides the UK parliament and simply treats the UK like some vassal state on whom they can foist anything they want.

Personally I think Corbyn will, with the help of the Tory Rebels, bring down the government. I also think they will fail to secure their caretaker government and that there will be an election.

I could be wrong. Nobody really knows what those bunch of idiots in Westminster will do. But you can be sure that whatever happens, the UK is not going back to being in the EU as it was before. That is not on the table. The people who will be livid with that result will totally destroy the current political order and we will see decades of chaos. That chaos will do 100 times more damage than any No Deal Brexit. But then it's OK isn't it because we will have "remained" and that is a no risk option.

Time to get real here. There are NO risk free options left and the riskiest option of all is what Corbyn, the SNP, the Lib Dems and the rebel Tories are playing at.

No Deal Bexit? A walk in the park compared to what those shysters have in mind for us.


The country is broken. Reality is that it was already broken, we just didn't see it. Now it is visible to all. The best thing is to move on and fix it. But that is No Deal and get out as fast as possible.

Parliament? They just want to break it even more and grind the shards into the dust.