HS2 cost skyrockets.

[Workingman]

Prey, do tell, what is so banana republic about having the UKs major cities all connected to each other by a fast railway system. Inter-City 125 anyone?Especially when all of the direct A to B routes are under 200 miles, and well under 150 miles in a lot of cases.

But if you look at France it is a different picture. Its major cities are not on each other's doorsteps like, say, Glasgow and Edinburgh or Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool are; they are well spread out

Paris to:
Lyon 400k / 250M
Bordeau 500k / 320M
Tououse 590k 370M
Marseille 670k / 410M

Those journeys do justify a fast train so long as your departure or destination is Paris.

But what if you want to go city to city? Yup, you got it, banana republic rail it is:

Marseille to Toulouse 320k / 200M = 3.5 hrs
Bordeaux to Lyon 420k / 275 M = 5 hrs
Nantes to Montpellier 580k / 360M 6.5 hrs

It's good to compare and contrast.

[Workingman]

I see Johnson has now stuck his oar in - so that's us screwed.

He has wandered in the magic money forest and now wants HS3 to cut the journey time from Leeds to Manchester in half. It is 35 miles city centre to city centre, but the bit outside of the urban areas where the trains can get a bit of a lick on is only about 15 miles - they'll be going at hyper-speed!

I feel another Garden Bridge episode coming down the tracks.

[cruiser2]

Let us not forget HS2 will not go to the center of Birmingham. It will only go to a new station near the airport. It will be necessary to change trains to get to the city center.
I don't travel very much by train these days. Can still get free travel to Manchester. The trains have not been relaced for many years.

[TheOstrich]

He has wandered in the magic money forest and now wants HS3 to cut the journey time from Leeds to Manchester in half. It is 35 miles city centre to city centre, but the bit outside of the urban areas where the trains can get a bit of a lick on is only about 15 miles - they'll be going at hyper-speed!

I haven't read what he's said yet, but the key decision will be the route. Follow the existing valleys or brand new straight line route through (under) the moors / National Park. It will be interesting to see which. It's also something which has been debated in railway circles since Attlee was knee-high to a grasshopper.

Let us not forget HS2 will not go to the center of Birmingham. It will only go to a new station near the airport. It will be necessary to change trains to get to the city center.

Speaking as an ex-Brummie, if you'll forgive me - not quite so, Cruiser. HS2 will be running into a new Curzon Street Station, next door to the Birmingham Science Museum. The station will lie alongside the New Street - London line just before you hit the tunnels into New Street station. If you know Birmingham, it's where the old Royal Mail depot used to be.

Curzon Street was where the first railway terminated in Birmingham in Victorian times, way before New Street and Snow Hill. The original terminus building (see Streetview link below; Museum also in the view) is a listed monument, so will be incorporated into the new station. It's around 10 minutes walk (uphill) to the Bull Ring / City Centre, and the idea is the tram will be extended thataway to provide an easy link. There was also talk of a long travellator at one point to whisk you from station to city, but I think that's been canned.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.48156 ... 312!8i6656

[Workingman]

I haven't read what he's said yet, but the key decision will be the route. Follow the existing valleys or brand new straight line route through (under) the moors / National Park. It will be interesting to see which. It's also something which has been debated in railway circles since Attlee was knee-high to a grasshopper.

Ossie, the two cities are 35 miles from each other... how much time do people want to save?

The existing main track, the Huddersfield Line, there is another, runs 70+ trains per day. In the rush hours these are commuter or 'stopping' trains and they inevitably push the 'average' journey time through the roof. The very much lesser numbered direct trains also stop at Huddersfield, and those journeys take about 45 mins. Take out Hudds and you might get 42 mins. Those times are more than acceptable for the vast majority of us.

What we do not need are hyper-speed, fusion powered levitating tunnel trains. What we do want is modern, comfortable and reliable trains with all the luxuries such as seats and windows, heating in winter and A/C in summer. Cost in comparison to HS3 = SFA.

Similar could be said for Manc to Liverpool and Manc or Leeds to Sheffield journeys.

Hull, unfortunately, is out on a limb. The line from Leeds, once past Selby, is a bit of a branch line.

[Kaz]

A few more more direct trains to London from Gloucester would help revitalise a pretty deprived city IMO. Mostly you have to change at either Swindon or Reading

It REALLY is a neglected corner of the country

[Workingman]

Kaz, you are in danger of falling into the 'London' trap.

Bristol, Cardiff and Brum are all much nearer and in your hinterland, they are where you should be looking to do business with. You do not need trains to London to be successful.

London is not the cure-all, it is more a black hole sucking everything in.

[Kaz]

Yes, I get the ideology, and agree, BUT the reality is that regular links to the capital would really help the local economy.

[Workingman]

Yes, I get the ideology, and agree, BUT the reality is that regular links to the capital would really help the local economy.

Why, London is 100 miles away from where you are.

Some 55 million of the UK live or work nowhere near London, we could not care less about it, and why should we? It is about time the country stood up to London.

Not Londoners, the people, they are us, but the politicians, the businesses, the faceless ones....

[cromwell]

A few more more direct trains to London from Gloucester would help revitalise a pretty deprived city IMO.

It REALLY is a neglected corner of the country

I think people don't realise this Kaz. They tend to assume that the West Country is all doing OK.

People from places like Sheffield and Newcastle complain that they are always left out of the equation when people talk about the north, too. Certainly the Sheffield to Manchester links are pretty poor.