Have we finally reached the time to change tac?

[miasmum]

I know Jen, I completely agree.

I know of one family, grandma voted to leave, now son in law won't speak to her as she has ruined his children lives and her daughter says she has to side with her husband.

[Workingman]

"Traitors", "quislings", "fascists", "cowards", "Remoaniacs" - just a few of the epithets used by some Leavers to describe Remainers. The name-calling works both ways, with neither side being squeaky clean.

It is true that on VV we have had some robust "conversations", but I cannot remember anyone resorting to those extremes. It is also true that Brexit has divided families, friends and neighbours like no other subject in recent times.

Whatever the end game turns out to be a lot of hard work, and give and take, is going to have to be in place in order to put Humpty back together again. There are threats of civil unrest from the "my way or the highway" crews, and for that not to happen those of us in the middle ground, the majority, are going to have to come together for the good of the whole country.

[medsec222]

Agree with Mrs May or disagree, there is no denying she has remained polite and professional throughout her negotiations with the EU. Unlike the present bunch in Brussels, Tusk and Junker et all, who seem to delight in tweeting sneering and demeaning remarks about our Prime Minister, our Government, and our country. They should be above such petty behaviour but sadly they are not.

Jenny I totally agree with you. I was disgusted when Michael Heseltine suggested that many leavers were of an age that the longer Brexit goes on, the less of them there would be to vote leave if there was a second referendum. He seemed to imply that all the young voters who would become eligible to vote in the interim would vote leave. How does he know that. No-one can be sure.

[medsec222]

Agree with Mrs May or disagree, there is no denying she has remained polite and professional throughout her negotiations with the EU. Unlike the present bunch in Brussels, Tusk and Junker et all, who seem to delight in tweeting sneering and demeaning remarks about our Prime Minister, our Government, and our country. They should be above such petty behaviour but sadly they are not.

Jenny I totally agree with you. I was disgusted when Michael Heseltine suggested that many leavers were of an age that the longer Brexit goes on, the less of them there would be alive to vote leave if there was a second referendum. He also seemed to imply that all the young voters who would become eligible to vote in the interim would vote leave. How does he know that. No-one can be sure.

[miasmum]

I think more young voters would vote remain wouldn't they Medsec? I can't remember who, but some eejit on the telly the other morning, was saying there are now a huge cohort of voters that weren't old enough to vote the first time round and they should now be given a chance to have their say. Surely that's the case with every election a couple of years on?

[Workingman]

Polite and professional or stubborn and stupid - I suppose it is a bit of both.

One problem with Brexit is that an agreement to suit a majority is so hard to deliver, even all of the "soft" Brexits have their detractors.

However, Brexit of the no-deal kind is an almost religious ideology, it is based on "beliefs" but not on "facts". There cannot be any "facts" as it has not yet been delivered. Once it is, if it is, those beliefs will have to change into realities and therein could lie another set of problems.

If all is going well, that's fine, but what if it isn't? If the economy is tanking and the £ is taking hits then there will be calls for a rethink and to rejoin the EU. Those calls will come from the public as well as people in finance, manufacturing, agriculture, other businesses, environmentalist, scientists as well as MPs etc.

The EU will probably allow it as the regaining of a large economy will boost its influence. However, a problem for the UK with rejoining, having left, is that we would have to abide by the four freedoms as well as joining the Euro, Schengen and losing our rebate, veto and opt-outs.

So, we would still be in a mess.

That only leaves revoking A50, for now. It does NOT stop Brexit, as many would fear, because Brexit will not go away. What it does do is allow the UK to regroup. It allows the formation of a National Committee, of all countries of the UK, as well as a broad spectrum of politicians from all parties and representatives from all sections of the economy and life, to look at various 'Brexits'.

The most likely to succeed would then be put before parliament for selection to take forward.

[TheOstrich]

Well at least May's wretched Brexit deal has been firmly put out of its misery. Taken in its entirety, it was a horrible deal that satisfied virtually no-one.

So now we proceed to a vote to rule out a No Deal, which I'm sure will be passed.

Then it will be a question of Parliament (not May) deciding what to do next; revoke Article 50 or go for an extension of some length or other. I would not be surprised if they ask to revoke Article 50, as WM says, as it will bring a bit of stability to the proceedings, both here and in the EU. Although I'm a raving Brexiteer, I'm quite sanguine about that, TBH - it might just be the best way out of the current mess, which is purely of May's making.

Once we've sorted that out, we can then start to plot how we're going to get rid of her and get a more pragmatic leader installed.

[Workingman]

Ossie, you are not the only Brexiter I have read who believes that a tactical withdrawal ATM in order to fight another day would not be a disaster.

To tonight. When referring to the A50 extension May put it back to the House and asked: Did it want to revoke A50, did it want another referendum or did it want a deal, but not this one?

She already knew that simply requesting an extension would not cut it with the EU. Various respondents from the EU backed that up and reiterated that the delay had to have a purpose - an end-game - or it might not gain unanimity. So, was she clearing the decks for any eventuality?

Another point picked up by a few of those interviewed was Corbyn's statement that the government had lost control and that a General Election was needed. It was pointed out that he never mentioned a referendum and that hinted that a no-confidence motion could be tabled depending upon how things pan out by the close of play on Thursday.

[cromwell]

I don't think that they quite have the guts to revoke Article 50 (and can they actually do so?).
More likely they will try for a "postponement" of Brexit and then, having made it 100% clear that they will never deliver Brexit, ask us to vote again.
Just like the Danes were asked to vote again, just like the Irish were asked to vote again.
We were promised that this was a once in a generation vote and that the result of the Brexit vote would be enacted.
We'll see.

[TheOstrich]

Well, if you ever had any illusions over the ultimate federalistic trajectory of the EU, and why so many Brexiteers want nothing to do with it …..

Summing up the debate on Brexit in the European Parliament, European Commission deputy chief Frans Timmermans asks whether Brexiteers are willing to "pay the price" for Brexit.
"Are you willing to sacrifice all those jobs for your pipe dream of so-called sovereignty", he asks - to some consternation among the UKIP MEPs. (BBC Online reporting)