Doctor reveals that sick babies go on Death Pathway.

[Kaz]

The staff were wonderful to my dad in the BUPA care home where he died....................they kept him hydrated right up to the last few hours. I realise we were very lucky xxxx

Mum, bless her went so quickly that none of this was an issue xxx

[Oojamaflip]

Oh Ooj..................I'm so very sorry xxxx

It was a few years ago now Kaz, but it's only recently I've become fully aware of what we allowed to be done to him. So many people have had the same experience as we describe to each other how our loved ones physically reacted to the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration. It is what it is, and nothing can be changed in hindsight but if it can be changed for those to follow in the future then it can only be a good thing. My blessing is that when finally he was finally put out of his literal agony through the administration of diamorphine, he was peaceful and the end was as good as it could have been.

A 'good' death is something we can only all hope for. It's extremely important that those who provide end of life care are truly caring and compassionate individuals who see the 'human being', rather than an inconvenient bed-blocking patient, and are allowed the resources and time to do the job well. I'm glad that your experience was somewhat better. xx

[Kaz]

Absolutely! And thank you xx

[Gal]

Oooj I am so sorry to read of what your poor Dad went through....it's truly dreadful ((((((((((((x)))))))))))

[shazsha]

Oooj I'm so sorry to read about what your dad went through and the subsequent guilt you feel.

We spoke about the LCP on the VV a few weeks ago. David was on this before he died and I couldn't fault it. The hospital explained everything to us, the family, and he was given food and liquid. On the night he died we had went home when he worsened and they called us back. When we arrived at the hospital a nurse was sitting with him in a softly lit room and was moistening his lips and talking quietly to him...though, by this time, he was unconscious.

After reading posts on VV the last time I decided to read up on it more. LCP doesn't state that all food and liquids should be withdrawn... it should be tailored/decided on each individual case. And therein lies the problem I think. It seems to me that many hospitals are interpreting/deciding to go with their own versions of the LCP and picking and choosing what parts they want to put into practise which is very wrong.

It should be remembered that the LCP was partly pioneered by the Marie Curie Cancer group and, I believe, in it's correct practise it is an aid to the dying patient.
However the addition of financial incentives, etc is leading to it being implemented badly in many cases.

It's maybe time for a complete overhaul of the LCP with definitive actions put into place instead of leaving it open to interpretation.

[KateLMead]

My dad was put on this 'Pathway', I now realise in hindsight. The full implications were not explained to us at the time. It's utterly cruel and evil to starve and dehydrate people to death. Very kind friends have tried to help me make sense of it all, he was very sick indeed at the time, but I'm still left with guilt that we unquestioningly went along with the Dr in in reality, literally, starved and dehydrated him into an early grave. In hindsight too I can recall the shock on the Dr's face as my dad rallied and told her she was lovely! I 'clocked' it at the time but it did not take on any significance at that time - only since, since I've become more aware. She looked shocked, sort of shook her head and muttered to herself something along the lines of 'we've started this now . . .'. My friend experienced her mum having the same gripping and agonising cramps in her abdomen as the organs were dying through lack of water and nourishment. I'm also left with the memory of him desperately sucking and chomping on the sponges as I moistened his lips and mouth. It was his instincts desperately trying to get the water he needed so badly.

Regardless of age, new born to elderly, nobody should be made to suffer this.

Terrible Ooj my heart goes out to you,do not blame yourself you did what you thought was right.. as the whistleblower stated parent's of babies, and the children of the elderly
are very traumatised in these situations and not knowiing the implications they do "as the doctor says" The millions given to hospitals and even more frightening nationwide doctors, who if they recommend and list those they think who are suitable candidates for Pathway will receive handsom cash incentives.. Shocking.. unbelievable .. What has this country sunk too....

[KateLMead]

Every day we are learning of more and more cases where patients are denied sustinance and fluids, as I wrote on the previous post that Shaz is talking about, it is as stated euthanasia by the back door..
We know that far to many old and elderly are drugged up the the eyeballs in old peoples homes if they have dementia..For people to be treated with Dignity is a thing of the past.. Of course there are good doctors and nurses, some good old peoples homes "at a price" and those who experience both a veryy lucky... And it is good to hear of those cases..

[Kaz]

some good old peoples homes "at a price"

My Dad's terminal care in the BUPA home was NHS funded. That's because he was deemed ill enough to be in hospital but didn't want to die in hospital, and my mum was too poorly and upset to care for him at home. So they funded it. We were extremely lucky as the private cost would have been well over £1k pw, and he was in there for about 10 weeks.......

[KateLMead]

That is a bit of brightness on a dark subject Kaz.. Bupa patients are usually well taken care of.
Yes... £1,000 a week, this shocking cost of care was revealed months ago..
My neighbour had to have knee surgery..she was in agony.. Waiting time, five months! They contacted the Nuffield on the Friday to see whether the op' could be carried out sooner, yes two weeks they were told..However on the Monday my neighbour received a call asking whether she could get in on the Wednesday.. Cost? just under £4,000

[Oojamaflip]

Oooj I'm so sorry to read about what your dad went through and the subsequent guilt you feel.

We spoke about the LCP on the VV a few weeks ago. David was on this before he died and I couldn't fault it. The hospital explained everything to us, the family, and he was given food and liquid. On the night he died we had went home when he worsened and they called us back. When we arrived at the hospital a nurse was sitting with him in a softly lit room and was moistening his lips and talking quietly to him...though, by this time, he was unconscious.

After reading posts on VV the last time I decided to read up on it more. LCP doesn't state that all food and liquids should be withdrawn... it should be tailored/decided on each individual case. And therein lies the problem I think. It seems to me that many hospitals are interpreting/deciding to go with their own versions of the LCP and picking and choosing what parts they want to put into practise which is very wrong.

It should be remembered that the LCP was partly pioneered by the Marie Curie Cancer group and, I believe, in it's correct practise it is an aid to the dying patient.
However the addition of financial incentives, etc is leading to it being implemented badly in many cases.

It's maybe time for a complete overhaul of the LCP with definitive actions put into place instead of leaving it open to interpretation.

Shaz, that's really interesting - thank you for the detail. Knowledge is power and when (if - with ageing mums) we have to deal with a similar situation, I'll be better prepared. I agree absolutely with your last sentence.

It appears your David was treated as anyone of us would want to be treated, with the love, care, and attention we ALL deserve.

Kate, thank you.