Winter Fuel Allowance

[Suff]

Personally I think the state should be looking to the millions who have been in the UK 5 minutes, yet can have a full set of benefits, rather than the thousands who have paid in full all their lives and are being penalised for taking their burden out of the country when they retire....

That is the way I see it.

Personally our temperatures have ranged between -5 to 0 day and night for the last 4 days. We're due more low temperatures till the weekend. My swimming pool has an inch of ice on top and it's still growing.

Yet, knowing that at it's coldest (February), our house could experience temperatures down to -17, we insulated the hell out of the house and put in multiple forms of heating; wood burning stove with back boiler, large wood burning central heating boiler, plus electric and paraffin backup. We're currently running on backup as our central heating boiler is out of action till I can get it re-fitted and correctly certified.

Still, even with wood at €55 per cubic meter, our heating bill is not insignificant in the winter.

We live in one of the "hot" countries.....

Every country I have worked in for the last 19 years has demanded I "pay in full" my taxes and social fund. The only one who will pay me "anything" in terms of benefits is the UK and they are reneging on that too. What it comes down to, for me, is poupulist policies and our natural xenophobia. Once we leave the UK we're deemed as "furriners" so we can go whistle for what we've paid for.

Don't like my position, don't follow the populist position. These people "paid" for this heating allowance. It didn't come in a Christmas cracker.... What WM says is my position completely. I live the "take your money and stuff you when you need" every year. So I play the game and treat their governments with the contempt they treat me....

Don't be a pawn. This won't make the slightest difference in terms of finances. But it sounds good. Much harder than dealing with the real problem. Nearly 10 million people, only some of whom are workers, who have been in the UK short term yet take full benefits.

Can't deal with them, that'd be bad......

[cromwell]

Trouble is Kaz, if everything is to be based solely on need, then there is no reason why the old age pension shouldn't be means tested as well...
And that would be a big step too far, imo.

I would submit to you that it already is means-tested. State pension is taxable, and many folk, therefore, while receiving 100% of it in the bank, then have to pay back either 20% or 40% of it in tax depending on how much their income is.

I understand that Os and would grit my teeth as the 20% went back to HMG. What worries me is some government a few years down the line saying "Well, you already have a pension, don't you? You don't need your old age pension as much as poor old Abdul the asylum seeker down the road, do you?". At which point my vote would be forever cast for the Sons of Ghengis Khan Party.

That is my honest worry. Pensions are the biggest part of the welfare payouts and I don't trust any government not to try and pay less somehow.

I'm with Suff btw. No one should just turn up and get their hand in the till after five minutes.

[Workingman]

It irks me that governments and the media have been able to lump pensions in with the general welfare budget where they are seen as just another benefit to be paid out.

Very few pensions fall into the category of 'benefit', the vast majority of them have been fully funded by their recipients through NI payments paid in over many decades of work. The fact that this particular pot is under pressure is down to governments spending those payments on other things instead if investing them wisely.

Outside of Establishment circles such an operation is seen as a scam or fraud.

[Kaz]

I don't think foreign immigrants should get handouts Neither do I think the old age pension should be means tested! I do think the fuel payment could be though........

[saundra]

Well Bill and I made the mistake of working all our lives and saving for our retirement
Did it do any good in a word no
I get a state pension
And some housing benefit nothing else
I do get the fuel allowance
Now my SIL Whoes husband fiddled the system all his life till he died
Gets every benefits going pays no rent nothing
And has just had new glasses and only paid 2 £ 20p
Plus has just been approved for 600 pounds worth of dental work
So Whoes the idiots me My blood boils

[Kaz]

That is unfair Saundra xx

[Rodo]

Many of us feel like that Saundra. It doesn't seem sensible to save these days does it?

[Workingman]

I was working part-time after I left the RAF when a pensions bod came round to give us a talk about pensions.

One of the old blacksmiths remarked that he was selling fresh air. He argued that if you put £5 a week in for 30 years or more you would be out of pocket. If you got £5 a week top-up on your pension you would have to claim for thirty years to break even. If you got £25 a week, a figure no government would give, you would still have to be claiming at age 71. Spend it or put it in the POSB was his advice.

It is sad, but Saundra's tale is quite common. Unless you were able to save enough to get a living wage from your investments you might as well have not bothered.

[tonicha]

Our private pensions, which we paid into for many years are just beginning to kick in - thank heavens.

Grumpy was self-employed for the majority of his working life, so had to jabe one, in fact he paid into several. I was also self-emploiyed for a few years and his we can now take. Mine, I have to wait until I'm 60.

Hence is being able to buy a new ish car should we need to.

As an aside, we were chatting this afternoon about all of this and we're damned if we leave and we're damned for leaving.

A lot of people (locals) think we're rich, because we bought our own house and don't work. And most of people we knew in England also think we're rich, because we bought our house over here and don't work.

Overall, it is cheaper to live here. We lost all the benfits of living in England, apart from the pension (and fuel allowance - which I won't get) We have to pay for the health service, we certainly don't get bus passes and stuff like that, althogh Keith can, should he want to, pay less for the train. But it's so cheap anyway, why bother with all the paperwork and stuff.

I'm sat here, with the fire roaring away, the gas oven is on and I've got socks, slippers, a t-shirt, jumper and a really thick cardi on.

When we went upstairs last night, not having the fire up too much, it was as if we'd left a window open.

So on that note, I'm not gong to mention it any more.

And a Happy New Year e Boa Ano Novo xx

[Workingman]

As an aside, we were chatting this afternoon about all of this and we're damned if we leave and we're damned for leaving.

Ain't that the truth!

It was something we considered when I came home from the ME, after the Saddam/Gulf War. Our savings would have bought a place outright in Spain or Portugal and would have given us plenty of time to learn the lingo, find work, integrate and move on. The house in the UK could have been rented out for more than enough to pay the mortgage and would eventually become an asset.

We didn't do it, saw our savings drip away to Rip-off Britain, got divorced, put the children through Uni and struggled on. 20:20 hindsight.

Both of my children are well aware of looking to their futures and to not be so concerned about worrying about the UK and how it will fare. They are well educated enough, with 1sts in useful subjects from decent universities, to be able to up-sticks; and if they did so tomorrow I would be happy with them leaving.

The UK might have the 5th or 6th biggest GDP, but it is quickly sinking to Third World status.