First hands-free self-driving system

[Suff]

First hands-free self-driving system approved for British motorways.

States the Guardian.

Erm, no. If you actually read the article it says.

The driving-assist feature in Ford’s latest Mustang Mach-E model, which allows the vehicle to steer and accelerate but also monitors the driver’s attention to ensure their eyes are on the road, will be permitted by the Department for Transport in a first for Europe.

In fact later on it says.

Under BlueCruise, the car can automatically brake, accelerate and reposition in a lane

So the Fiat 500 Sport crossover "thing" I hired for my Aunt's funeral could do all of that. The only thing it would not do is let me take my hands off the wheel. It was pretty crap too as it bounced off the white lines from side to side making it more like a day out on a small boat than driving a car.

The really big news is that, now the UK has created legislation which allows Level 2 vehicles to drive your car within the boundaries of its capabilities, it should also open up to all other Level 2 systems. This means that the Tesla FSD Beta should now be available to use in the UK.

FSD Beta is not limited to the motorways, it can drive on virtually any metalled road and several non metalled roads. It also has the capability to monitor the driver and allow you to take your hands off the wheel and pedals. Something which is gradually being allowed in the US after 10,000 miles of experience with the system.

The key difference between blue cruise and adaptive cruise control is that it can stay in the lane smoothly, plus it will notify you to take over if it is reaching the limit of its abilities. So, in essence, little more than adaptive cruise control with a bit of smart steering within the same lane.

Now let's have a look at Tesla FSD.

here

I've chosen this video because it starts from a stopped vehicle actually off the road. It is everything you expect from self driving. Press the button to get attention and tell it where you want to go, press the screen to verify and off it goes. The driver is allowed to take both hands and feet off and let the vehicle drive, only being monitored by the camera.

This is version 11.3.6, just released to a limited pool of testers. The driver is making comparisons which are obvious. The only part which is not obvious to the novice is the down to 0 stop at every stop sign. Humans in California don't do this they do what they call a "rolling stop" essentially a give way or Yield in their parlance. FSD was also doing this until the HNTSA (highway safety), got on their high horse and demanded that Tesla FSD drop to 0mph and stop at every single stop sign. So Tesla complied, to the undying irritation of Californio drivers.

This video shows you how self driving is supposed to work. No "geofencing" (only working in areas that have been milimeter mapped by laser equipped cars), just reading the road and driving.

Hopefully that will expand to the UK too now that the UK has allowed Level 2 driving. OK FSD Beta is not Level 2, it is Level 5 in training, but by demanding the driver remain fully alert and able to take over, FSD beta falls within the Level 2 bracket and so can be used.

You can see the ford Blue Cruise video here

What happens when Tesla under FSD detects that the driver is no longer driving the vehicle? First it warns you, then if you still don't respond it safely pulls you off the road, stops with the hazards on and if correctly configured, calls the emergency services. As things advance it can easily be configured to take you to the nearest hospital.

The future has arrived. Now we need to get used to it as it is only going to improve and grow.

[Workingman]

Another solution to a problem that does not exist and, therefore, does not need fixing.

If you want to own a car and use it on the roads then learn how to drive, get a licence, and then 'drive' it. If you want to sit in a pod, do the crossword, watch a film or have a kip then get on a bus or a train.

All these gadgets and gizmos are more things to go wrong - regularly, and the "cars" with them installed do basically no more than my first car, a second-hand Hillman Imp bought in 1971.

[Suff]

Let me give you just one scenario.

You live alone in the country, the pub is 5 miles away. Your local bus services runs once an hour till 6pm then expires. The local taxi service comes form the nearest large town, 20 miles away, which means a taxi 5 miles home will cost you a small fortune.

So what do you do? Never go to the pub? Go to the pub but don't drink? Or, perhaps, when L5 automation is available your car drives you there and back.

That is just one of a thousand different applications. The most obvious one is autonomous taxis. Which reduce the price of a ride from tens of £ to single £. Yes there are issues, but, in general, pervasive autonomous transport will reduce cars on the road and cost to people.

Autonomous micro busses which will come to the location on your mobile and drop you off at your desired location. All for a bus fare.

And the possibilities go on and on and on. But if we don't train these solutions there will never be any. That has become totally clear over the last decade. It takes trillions of driven miles to train a driving AI. The more they drive like the Tesla FSD, the faster these solutions will arrive.

Of course those who live in a built up area with a pub in walking distance and bus services up to midnight and short hop taxi's after, don't have to worry. For them these are "unnecessary".

Our world is advancing. It is going to make some things much easier. Best to be aware and take the benefits where they come. Because you're going to get the downsides whether you like it or not.

[Workingman]

Oh boy, talk about Sci-Fi.

Autonomous taxis, micro buses flitting hither and dither, conflating driver-assist with driverless cars. Might as well throw in flying cars, domestic androids or cyborgs and isolated Megacities.

How far into the future will it be before we live in that dystopian world? And you are paranoid about ID cards.

Blade runner, World on a Wire and the Matrix were not documentaries... or were they?

[cromwell]

The trip to the pub and self drive home scenario will be ruled out imo. Can't have people enjoying themselves.
probably an alcohol detector will be placed in the car to prevent this scenario.
The one thing that does accur about a move to self driving cars is what happens if the matrix or whatever breaks down - no one will actually know how to drive any more!

[Suff]

Crommers, how many young people would be able to go new places if GPS went down and Google maps fail.

How many people buy physical maps today?

WM, you are way behind the curve. Autonomous Taxi's already exist and provide services in the US and China. Autonomous busses already exist in China.

This technology is progressing at speed now we have multiple companies competing.

Some core trucking is already autonomous but with a backup safety driver for now.

Just like large language model AI, things are taking off and getting faster and faster.

You clearly did not watch the Tesla video slef driving that I posted.

Self driving vehicles are no longer science fiction, they are now just Fact.

The next stop is a self driving vehicle with near perfect ability.

[medsec222]

If it knows how to park it will get my vote. The best I have ever been at parking was when we had a BMW which bleeped when it got near anything. We now have a Honda and I just can't get on with the camera.

[cromwell]

Crommers, how many young people would be able to go new places if GPS went down and Google maps fail.

How many people buy physical maps today?

Point taken!

I had to show my daughter where Leicester was on a map the other day, she hadn't a clue. Neither she, my son or my son in law would know what to do with a map.

[Workingman]

Crommers, how many young people would be able to go new places if GPS went down and Google maps fail.

Not many, and that's a positive is it, people cannot read maps?

How many people buy physical maps today?

No point if they cannot read them. See above and Cromwell's last post.

WM, you are way behind the curve. Autonomous Taxi's already exist and provide services in the US and China. Autonomous busses already exist in China.

In just a few places. And the YouTube videos show little public support.

This technology is progressing at speed now we have multiple companies competing.

So!?

Some core trucking is already autonomous but with a backup safety driver for now.

Not autonomous and then only in pilot trials with either support teams and / or monitored by a remote pod "driver". Not exactly "core" trucking is it?

Just like large language model AI, things are taking off and getting faster and faster.

So!? There is quite a bit of concern about where AI is headed.

You clearly did not watch the Tesla video slef driving that I posted.

I never watch adverts nor pay much attention to promotion / public relation articles.

Self driving vehicles are no longer science fiction, they are now just Fact.

That does not make them necessary nor desirable when they are not solving any problem.

The next stop is a self driving vehicle with near perfect ability.

What, they are not perfect!? Well yes, there is plenty of evidence out there proving that to be the case.

[Suff]

What, they are not perfect!? Well yes, there is plenty of evidence out there proving that to be the case.

I mentioned this before but let me mention it again. US, Humans kill 42,000 people on the roads in 2022.

Humans are FAR from perfect. AI is getting to be better than humans.

Key facts to remember. Every iteration of AI will be as good as the last and in some areas better. Within a reasonable margin of real time learning that the AI update didn't have because all updates require a point in time stop from which it has to learn again.

Humans. ALL Humans, have to learn to drive from scratch. Every single time. Once AI is significantly better than a human, Every AI of the same class will be significantly better than a human and Every time for Every vehicle. It will only get better. Humans never get "better" as a whole because they all have to learn from scratch.

The goal here is to make transport safer, easier and more pervasive for Everyone.

Tell me please. How many people actually know any of the phone numbers they call? I would say very, very, few. Yet when digital phones with a directory on them started coming out the same people who say "we don't need self driving cars" would be saying "if you don't know the number of the person you are calling you are doing something wrong". Yet I have over 400 numbers in my phone which I use from time to time. The most phone numbers I ever remembered was around a dozen. All these people who said "you don't need a phone with a directory on it", all had their own phone books at home for the people they called regularly.

Today the vast majority of people would laugh at someone who said "you need to remember the phone number of the people you call". Especially as the young don't even "dial" people. They whatsapp call them or skype, or facetime or messenger them.

Your whole premise, WM, is the same as the person who claimed that you should carry a filofax around with you to write down the numbers of people you just met. Instead of calling each other and saving the number on your phone.

Just as nobody would contemplate carrying around a filofax to write down numbers of people (ignoring that calls are moving to web apps), in 20 to 30 years time people will scoff at anyone who thought that self driving vehicles were not "necessary or desirable".

They will just be part of our lives and most people won't even think, for one second, what they would have done without it. Just as nobody thinks for one second about the previous way we used to store our contacts details and how we would manually dial the number.