Vocal Voices

Reading this article reminds me, if I needed such, that the chances of Scotland leaving the Union can be very heavily impacted by English; who have no clue how insulting their likening Scotland to a sub Antarctic island can be. The Falklands face a stark choice. Be a British Protectorate or be Argentinian. There is NO doubt in ANY minds there that seceding from Britain would make them a part of Argentina.

Scotland, on the other hand, is a Nation who's GDP is in the top 10% of the world, who's population is over 5Million and who can actually afford and staff a defence force that would protect them against an aggressor like Argentina.

Scots who are wavering will not be swayed to England and the Union by articles like this. They will be pushed to put the finger up and vote for independence.

The best thing the English press can do, if they don't want Scotland to secede, is to SHUT UP and leave the Scots to sort their own future out. Most Scots don't want to secede now that they have more self determination and a stronger identity through the "Government". However constant stories insinuating that Scotland is somehow totally reliant on England or that Scots choosing to exercise their right to self determination will cause an adverse and unproportionate reaction from England, is all that is needed to push some very proud (rightly so), Scots, to the other side.

We already have the issue that Salmond is giving the 16 and 17 year olds a vote in this. Fortunately they don't tend to read the English press. But they do read the internet.

I know it's a forlorn hope that the English press might gain some perspective on Scotland as a country and a Nation, but I guess I can try. What irks me more is that the English chafe so much under the restrictions of the EU, yet are completely unable to understand that the Scots stand in similar relation in the Union. To the Scots the arrogance should be staggering, but in reality it's just an old story.

If the English press want to really keep Scotland in the Union, they should be talking about how it will be really good for the English when the Scots leave as they'd get rid of all those EUphiles and England would finally be able to get out of the EU.

I can see Cameron going to bed every night praying for Salmond to win, because with all those Scots Lib Dem, Labour and SNP voters out of the equation, the Tories would be a shoe in for the next decade. Cameron loses ONE seat....

I don't think the independence thing will go through. The Scottish people will realise that it wouldn't be all plain sailing and they would lose a lot rather than gain a lot. Just imagine having to adopt the euro and join the bunfight there.

Salmond has backed away from the Euro. He'd be insane not to. Why would they anyway? The Scottish currency is not issued by the BOE anyway. Yes there would be some finagling of the system, but there is no reason why Scots pounds should be any different from, say, Jersey pounds.

Scots realise that it won't be all plain sailing. One of the real worries is the reality of the financial reporting. But, in the end, Scots have a GDP greater than many countries. In fact the Scottish GDP is $100bn greater than New Zealand or 40% more and the population is only circa 1M more.

Salmond is being very cagey here. Under 18's are very nationalistic, they have no clue about the economy and you can guarantee that Braveheart <sic> will run continuously up until next year. Never mind that almost everything about the story is twisted or wrong. I've seen the Wallace's sword and it comes up to my chin and that is only the smallest of things they chose to change. It is a film designed to make Scots feel put upon and it does it's job with the young.

In this scenario, we need all the older Scots to take a long hard look at the realities of the situation and vote accordingly. English press articles which basically have no clue about the Scots or Scotland and spouting total rubbish, will not help in that scenario.

The trouble is,thanks to devolution, Scotland has become a pseudo self-governing entity within the UK anyway - not unlike the Falkland Islands. How "fair" is this to the rest of us?

Quite honestly, if the Scots want independence, fair enough and good luck to them. But they must expect full border controls, no say in English affairs, no automatic rights to sterling or any other fiscal arrangement, and to be regarded as foreigners when they visit England, complete with ID cards should they require benefits or medical treatment.

It's entirely up to them. Play the game fairly with the rest of the children, or get out of the playground. Simples!

Hear hear Ossie!!!! Just what I wanted to say - and just what Mick and I have both been thinking for ages

The article is a typical "Ladybird" version of some cherry picked matters, which in truth are of little consequence, but populist enough to stir the oiks.

It is about time the press started providing in-depth analyses of the various and far more important matters - to both sides. Time is running out, though, and I do not see it happening until it is too late. which it might already be.

Workingman wrote:It is about time the press started providing in-depth analyses of the various and far more important matters - to both sides.

Hear hear; but I won't be holding my breath, either.

Part of the problem is the standard of our politicians. Labour would lose forty-odd seats in the House of Commons, so are desperate for Scotland to stay in the Union - but won't admit that this is their main motivation in this matter.
Another part is that "devolution" is EU regionalisation by another name - and NO party wants to talk about that!

So we end up with all parties who support us being in the EU, not wanting to be seen to support the issue of EU regionalisation, we have the Labour party suddenly coming over all patriotic and wrapping itself in the Union Jack - this is entirely bizarre.

Btw - there is paper talk today about a new oil field west of Orkney. If I were Salmond I might start digging out the old "It's Scotland's oil" slogan.

I just hope the issue of Scottish independence gets settled once and for all and as soon as possible. The longer this drags on the more fractious the issue will become.

Ossie, the Scots already work in a currency which is issued and backed by Scottish banks. The access they get to sterling is when some English person gives them Sterling Notes. Most English are unaware of this until they try to refuse Scottish Notes.... Scottish currency may be under the umbrella of Sterling, but it certainly isn't Sterling itself. Something most Scots will be surprised to find out if they secede.

As for Travel, health etc? Currently Scots get more health benefits, university fees paid and free bus travel throughout Scotland. Why on earth would they want to come over the border? They live in and outstandingly beautiful country which gives them more services than the English.

As for a say in English affairs? The Scots, mainly, have no wish to interfere in English affairs. In fact the only Scots I know of who condoned the last Labour governments interference in English Only affairs are embittered at the English interference in Scots affairs. With Independence that would go away and they would simply ignore the English anyway.

The fact that the English can't gain their own pseudo governing entity under the UK is not the fault of the Scots. In fact, as the English have the majority of the seats in Westminster, they have a de facto control over government. The fact that the English allowed the Scots Labour vote to influence their English only affairs is not the fault of the Scots. If the English don't like it they should vote in a Government who is English focused.

Try taking your position out and looking at it the other way.

Even then, the majority of Scots want to make the Union work, they just want the 90% of English and Welsh vote not to have undue influence on Scottish only affairs. That is fair but not how the country has been governed for at least 150 years.

My take has always been simple. Either you are in or you are out. If you are out you get out and do your own thing; entirely. If you are in you work at it. BUT, that means that if the Scots are in the ENGLISH work at it too. So far, it has been a one way street. Now it's a two way street and the English don't like it. Turnaround isn't fair, but then neither is life.....

There was a piece on the BBC by Stephanie Flanders asking whether Britain, I think she meant England, should let go of London.

There were over 2000 responses and the vast majority of them showed the same frustrations we in England have with 'London' as those of the Scots. However, let us be clear here, there are two Londons. One is a great Metropolis filed with ordinary Londoners much like you or I. The other is a little bubble, which includes Westminster and The City. It is the bubble that causes all the friction.

It causes friction the length and breadth of the UK because those within treat it as a special case. It protects itself and maintains itself by sucking in every ounce of investment - because it can.

The disenchantment is by no means a Scottish phenomenon, it is shared by many in England as well.

The ENGLISH are definitely NOT the same as those in the bubble.

TheOstrich wrote:The trouble is,thanks to devolution, Scotland has become a pseudo self-governing entity within the UK anyway - not unlike the Falkland Islands. How "fair" is this to the rest of us?

Quite honestly, if the Scots want independence, fair enough and good luck to them. But they must expect full border controls, no say in English affairs, no automatic rights to sterling or any other fiscal arrangement, and to be regarded as foreigners when they visit England, complete with ID cards should they require benefits or medical treatment.

It's entirely up to them. Play the game fairly with the rest of the children, or get out of the playground. Simples!

Ossie, we may be Scottish but we're not brain dead. I think even the thickest among us know that Independence would make us foreigners to the English but do remember it's a two way street and the English will also be foreigners to us which means you would need ID cards should you require benefits or medical treatment if visiting here.

I firmly believe Scotland can be a successful nation if it gains it's Independence and sincerely hope I see it. However there really isn't any proper information coming through the general media, either for or against(though from my perspective there does appear to be more info supporting the No vote).

Did you all know that the BBC has stopped ALL comments on their website on Scottish issues. Their experts can give out info but if it is wrong or slanted there is no chance of commenting/correcting. They only stopped the comments after the possibility of Independence gathered pace-anyone with a suspicious mind would maybe think this was done on purpose to stop the facts on Independence coming out.