Fabulous Four turn into the Tremendous Three.

[Suff]

It is quite pleasant to know that I have managed to miss this in its entirely. Essentially they are no longer important to me as a party and will have to prove to me that they gain any regard from me ever again.

I wonder just how many others feel the same way and just how many Farage will pick up over this current parliament?

This could lead to several parliaments where the Tories are whittled down with the Lib Dems on one side and Reform on the other. Ending with Reform winding up wielding all the former Tory votes.

Has to be the Tory party's worst nightmare scenario but they are so obsessed with their own infighting that they can't see it.

[Workingman]

I can agree with most of that.

The Tories are in a mess and it is an existential threat. The vast majority of the electorate are slightly right or left, but not at the extremes. They are somewhere in the centre ground and that is where the Tories need to be, and it is up to the 'one nation' section (not all are Remainers btw) to take back control from the ERG types. Reform PLC is not the answer, it will only ever pick up the nut jobs and it is welcome to them.

Infighting is not the answer - see Labour and Militant Tendency for details.

See my previous post about the country needing a strong opposition no matter who is in power. We are unlikely to get that any time soon.

[TheOstrich]

What price a breakaway centrist "One Nation" part?

[Suff]

WM I haven't forgotten your view about a strong opposition. I also happen to agree with that.

However I have been part of a journey that you haven't. I worked in Sweden for 4.5 years over more than a decade. I watched the Sweden Democrats go from being a Neo Nazi party, with leaders openly going to meetings wearing Nazi uniforms, to being a totally reformed (pun intended), party, which has now taken the second largest number of votes cast and is in government with a few minorities.

It is highly likely that if this government is very successful they will get the most votes in the next election.

Don't say Never in politics because never really is a very long day.

[Workingman]

What price a breakaway centrist "One Nation" part?

Why not? A similar thing happened to Labour in 1981 under Michael Foot / Militant Tendency. The "Gang of four" (Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Bill Rodgers, and Shirley Williams) left Labour and formed the Social Democratic Party (SDP) in protest at the extreme leftwards direction Labour was heading. The breakaway eventually led to Labour moderates taking back control under Neil Kinnock and, eventually, Tony Blair with a move to the centre.

Labour went from 14 years in the wilderness to winning the 1997 general election and gaining 13 unbroken years in power. To get back into power the Conservatives under Cameron had to form a coalition with the LibDems (another move to the centre) before taking back full control in 2016. There is a lesson in all of that which the current Conservative should heed and take note of.

I see that today a Tory group of centrists have refused to back either Jenrick or Badoneoch saying "Both have used rhetoric and focused on issues which are far and away from the party at its best, let alone the One Nation values we cherish and uphold." The opening shots have been fired... watch this space.

[Suff]

Let's be brutally honest though. What is going on with the Tory party leadership is nothing more than finger in the dike politics. It will not help, it will not bring the party together and certainly won't help them win the next election.

The Tories have not yet faced the reality that nothing they do in this leadership election is going to change the reality that as things stand they are going to lose the next election. Only a catastrophic failure of Labour in the next 4 years can change that at this point in time.

They don't need a competition right now, they need a nuclear strike on the party leadership and that won't happen until they lose the next election.

[Workingman]

The thing is that if you put your finger in the dike it is to plug the hole. You do not start wriggling it about to make the hole bigger. Have the Conservatives, Jenrick and Badenock understood that?

[Suff]

The thing is that if you put your finger in the dike it is to plug the hole. You do not start wriggling it about to make the hole bigger. Have the Conservatives, Jenrick and Badenock understood that?

Not a chance.

[cromwell]

When's the final showdown? This has been going on for longer than Coronation Street.

[Workingman]

I think the race ends on the 31st of October and the new loser will be crowned on the 2nd of November.