Chicken licken clucks off.

[Workingman]

When attacks on plans for Brexit are made by the opposition they can be dismissed because it is the opposition, and that is what they are supposed to do.

When the attacks are from economists and experts in their particular fields they can also be dismissed because they are not in government.

When the attacks are from MPs in your own party they cannot be ignored, as May found out.

But when the same ideas are presented as 'new' by 'someone' then to attack them is a conspiracy by Uncle Tom, et al, to derail your attempt to become the next PM, even though those same ideas were found unworkable by the government you were part of, and also by the negotiators on the other side.

Oh, and by the way BoZo, the EU has said time and again that May's WA will not be renegotiated. So what, prey tell, is your shiny new plan that they might, possibly, give you an extension to negotiate, because no-deal isn't it? It will bring you and the Tories down.

About 65 million of us, minus about 160,000 "I remember the Empire" OAPs would dearly love to know.

[Suff]

This all might make a good storyline before the euro elections. Even after, maybe. But the Peterborough by election killed all that.

The Tories came third, Labour nearly lost to a party less than 2 months in existence.

The next Tory PM has a lever May did not. The spectre of Farage breathing down their necks.

The entire situation has changed and everyone is banging on about things as if nothing has changed....

It is almost comical.

[Workingman]

So, BoZo only has a wish list but not a workable plan, and Hunt says that 31st Oct is a "fake deadline".

Thank heavens that is cleared up.

Then I woke up this morning to the news that Dad's Army is to blame and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the anti EEC / EU media's 45 years or more of myths, legends and downright lies.

Classic Brexiteer deflection.

[Suff]

WM, the Brexit Party won the EU elections without a manifesto. Hands Down. They then came second in Peterborough without a manifesto. Not only second but less than 700 votes from winning.

People who want out of the EU don't want a manifesto. They don't want big words and long speeches. They want someone who says Out Means OUT. That is all they want to hear.

Finally and I do mean FINALLY, people are beginning to realise that if you really want something and your government does not, then you have to suffer 5 years of something you might not want under normal circumstances to get it.

Single Issue voting has finally become a reality. Mainly because the issue is so big and the "entitled" won't deliver it.

Don't look at the press. Waste of time. They don't get it. They still believe that they control the people...… Consider this. The SUN has blathered on, for years, about how it champions the winner in every election. They said a lot about that with Cameron. Well they championed May and she lost. She may be PM but she lost the election as she lost her majority.

Anyway, I don't care what they say. I care what they DO. Bojo says he'll do what Brexiteers want. Hunt says he won't, he'll "negotiate". Bojo says that Negotiating without the ultimate sanction of real pain for the EU won't work. Hunt says they pixies and fairies will suddenly allow him to come to an "acceptable" deal with the EU, even though he will keep the same approach as May and just keep on kicking the can down the road.

If I elect Bojo to PM and he doesn't deliver, then there will be an election and the Tories will be destroyed. Farage will become KingMaker and the whole mess will go round again with Farage in the mix. If I elect Hunt to PM it is guaranteed he will not deliver what he is saying and the Tories will be destroyed at the next election. Farage will become KingMaker and the whole mess will go round again with Farage in the mix.

If, however, Bojo does deliver, the entire situation changes and Farage can be neutralised at the next election.

Everything else being blathered about in the press is a distraction. Nothing is worth listening to. I don't care about the TV debates or the hustings or anything else. The choice is simple.

There is an election coming.

Boris says we'll leave the EU at Halloween.
Hunt says we won't leave the EU until the UK government agrees to do what the EU tells them.

End Of Story.

Now I get to vote.

[Workingman]

Aha, got it!

It's not about what the country wants or needs. It is not even about what the 17.4 million Leavers want or need as no-deal was not on offer by either of the Leave campaigns.

It is all about what 100,000 or so rabid anti EU Tory members want because they are running scared of Farage and what his new party can do to their old and stale party.

Clarity at last.

[Suff]

It is all about what 100,000 or so rabid anti EU Tory members want because they are running scared of Farage and what his new party can do to their old and stale party.

Clarity at last.

I don't know about running scared. It is a simple decision for a member of a political party which is in crisis. Do you make things worse or do you take a chance on making them better. Might be making things much worse, but that's not certain. The other is.

Remember those 160k are not electing the government, any more than the ~500k that elected Corbyn are. They are electing a leader of their party who, when in government, will be the PM.

As we have seen, both clearly and brutally, the PM is not omnipotent. So why would we want to say the PM is? Right, because it feeds a media agenda....

[Workingman]

I don't know about running scared. It is a simple decision for a member of a political party which is in crisis.

So all this is about a party that is in crisis, and that party is about to destroy a whole nation to save itself.

Thank you ever so much for clearing that up for the sensible ones among us. We are eternally grateful... Except for the fact that in clearing your party's mess up you could bring us all down.

Well bloody done.

[jenniren]

Everything else being blathered about in the press is a distraction. Nothing is worth listening to. I don't care about the TV debates or the hustings or anything else.
The choice is simple.
There is an election coming.
Boris says we'll leave the EU at Halloween.
Hunt says we won't leave the EU until the UK government agrees to do what the EU tells them.
End Of Story.
Now I get to vote.

Absolutely spot on Suff.

WM I'm yet to meet a leaver who's changed their mind. I'm sure there are some out there, but actually in this neck of the woods it's the other way around. People are mightily fed up with politicians who believe they can treat the electorate with contempt. MP's are elected to represent their constituencies and regardless of party politics that's what they're paid to do. This is supposed to be a democracy, we had a referendum and the result, however distasteful to some, should be honoured.

Frankly, I'm deeply saddened and sick and tired of all the unpleasant name calling from some on both sides

[Workingman]

Spot on eh?

Boris says we'll leave the EU at Halloween.
Hunt says we won't leave the EU until the UK government agrees to do what the EU tells them.

The reality, taken from the digital hustings used by the candidates:

Mr Hunt said if the UK gets to October without the prospect of a deal, "we will leave without a deal".

Mr Johnson also repeated his pledge to get the UK out of the EU on 31 October, but he thinks the chances of a no-deal Brexit happening are a "million to one".

And:

Mr Hunt said it was essential the Conservatives had delivered Brexit before a general election, otherwise the party "will be thrashed".

Asked about proroguing Parliament, Mr Johnson said: "It would be absolutely crazy for any of us to think of going to the country and calling a general election before we get Brexit done."

When pushed, he added: "I'm not attracted to archaic devices like proroguing."

The hustings quotes are not opinion or spin, they are the actualite.

And there I will leave things for a while. Nothing much can be done now until the new leader is in place.

[Suff]

The hustings quotes are not opinion or spin, they are the actualite.

Erm, yeah right. Hunt having changed his tune, but still not enough, Hunt says that we'll leave without a deal in October if the EU won't change the deal, however he then goes on to talk about "being out" by the next election... Right. So which one am I supposed to believe? The original, "if they don't change the deal by November we'll have to extend"? Or the new Boris Buster "We'll be out by November one way or another"? Hunt says the Tories will be "thrashed" at the next election if they don't get Brexit done. SUPRISE, the Tories are already being thrashed.

Boris? "We'll have a deal if we tell them that we'll leave without a deal". Right. He's in lala land. But at least he said, first, that it is change the deal or no deal but Oct31 is the deadline and it is not extending. He is also very cagey about Raab's idea of Proroguing parliament. Quite right. Let's think about this. Who can ask for an extension? The PM, that is who, just as it has to be the PM who asks for Brexit. Erm, let me see, Boris doesn't ask for an extension, we're out. Let's get this straight, "Parliament" can't ask for an extension. So who is Bojo more scared of? Parliament and a contempt vote or the Voters? Even then, there are other options such as forcing a GE then dissolving parliament, which then leaves BoJo as the only person who can ask for an extension. Corbyn and the Labour Leave supporters? If they think that simply voting to dissolve Parliament will make Brexit go away as an issue, don't bet that they won't go for it.

May did everything with the EU 100% wrong. You can be sure that BoJo won't do the same. Hunt? He's for Remain, even now, but duty bound to take us out. Which means he will deliver as close to his Remain leanings as he can which means that when, not if, the EU do their "bugger off" bit again in October he will fold.

Other than that? I get my voting papers week after next...