Are you scared...

[Workingman]

... of Brexit?

Mr Cameron wants you to be. He is claiming that Brexit will mean the "Jungle" camps of Calais will move to the UK.

No, Mr Cameron, total ballcocks. All we need is a double fenced compound at the exit of the tunnel. The inner fence is electrified strong enough to roast anyone who touches it. All trains are stopped and thoroughly searched for illegals, who are then removed. They are then put on the next outward bound train.

If all this causes hold ups on the other side of the Channel, tough luck, let them deal with it. I think they, the EU (France and Belgium), might come to realise it is a problem for them to solve.

On another note: I personally hate this type of negative and scare-mongering tactic.

[Aggers]

: I personally hate this type of negative and scare-mongering tactic.

Politicians of the PM's ilk will say anything that they think will sway public feeling,
even when they know full well that what they say is a load of bullsh.

[Kaz]

I don't believe anything that comes out of that man's mouth!

[Suff]

He is quite correct in stating that the le Touquet agreement may be cancelled in the wake of a UK exit. However the agreement is nothing to do with the EU and is a private agreement between the UK and France to facilitate faster transfer to a UK which is not and never will be, in Schengen.

Then again the Sky might fall and kill me tomorrow.

There are half a million French living in South East England. The French are not going to radically impact them, they are voters after all.

It is scaremongering but not of the kind used in the Scottish Independence referendum. This one has more than a kernel of truth in it.

However, what he is really saying is this.

"If we give up our freedoms and our ability to control our own borders, then we might have a short term impact in the French just letting the immigrants on the trains/ferries. Well they will until the UK simply sends them back with everyone on them until the French get the message that the UK border is not going to be permeable the way the French one is.

Whilst I seriously dislike the way it has been done, I don't dislike it as much as I dislike the total BS being pandered about by others.

[Workingman]

However, what he is really saying is this.

"If we give up our freedoms and our ability to control our own borders, then we might have a short term impact in the French just letting the immigrants on the trains/ferries.

Well they will until the UK simply sends them back with everyone on them until the French get the message that the UK border is not going to be permeable the way the French one is.

No he is not, he is conflating the two: membership of the EU and the bilateral Le Tourquet treaty.

Asked about the suggestion that he was "scaremongering" by linking a vote to leave the EU with the moving of the Calais migrant camps to the south coast of England, Mr Cameron said it was a very real risk.

"There are any number of opposition politicians in France who would love to tear up the excellent agreement we have with France to make sure that we have our borders on their side of the Channel - I don't think we should give those politicians any excuse to do that," he said.

"If we can get this deal in Europe, if we can get this renegotiation fixed and we can stay in a reformed Europe, you know what you get. You know the borders stay in Calais."

Illegal immigrant camps on the south coast of England will only become a reality if Cameron keeps to his weak-kneed, lily-livered and bumbling idiot approach to control of our borders. Estimates show that some 1.4m illegals have been let into the UK since 2010; and that is at the at the lower end of esitmates.

If the UK does not want to let in illegal immigrants (through any port or airport) it is perfectly within its rights to stop them; and being, or not being, a member of the EU is neither here nor there.

I have already said that I wish to remain in the EU, but I will be spitting blood as I mark my X if this sort of scaremongering is used to get others to vote the same way.

[TheOstrich]

However, what he is really saying is this.

"If we give up our freedoms and our ability to control our own borders, then we might have a short term impact in the French just letting the immigrants on the trains/ferries. Well they will until the UK simply sends them back with everyone on them until the French get the message that the UK border is not going to be permeable the way the French one is.

As long as we have the guts to do it - and the human rights lawyers don't intervene first.

[Workingman]

As long as we have the guts to do it - and the human rights lawyers don't intervene first.

We have always had the right, in International Law, but governments of all colours have never had the guts to do it. To pretend that Brexit will change any of that is a long way past being disingenuous.... We would not be giving up our freedoms or our ability to control our own borders - we already have them.

Cameron is playing silly buggers. It is underhand and offensive, but he knows quite well what he is doing.

He is not talking about EU migrants. All they have to do is wave their EU passports at Customs. And do remember those in the "Jungle" are not EU citizens, either, they are the dregs, chancers and opportunists from outside the EU looking to break in.

[Suff]

The response from France has been as revealing about the structure of France and it’s relationship with the EU as it does about Cameron’s allegation.

The French interior is saying the agreement will stay and there will be no change (read, don’t use us to justify your need to remain in the EU, it’s all about you).

The “Mayor” (not sure that report was correct, probably the regional governor), of the Nord Pas de Calais region is saying “If you leave you are no longer EU and the agreement goes and all bets are off.

There is some precedent for this. When the tunnel opened, Maggie agreed a modification of the border rules to accommodate it. This was EEC territory and not EU, that came after Blair signed the Maastricht treaty which created the EU and he then agreed the Le Touquet agreement based on the foundation of two “states” within the EU.

Personally, knowing the French, we’d have to give them a very good reason to keep the agreement in place if we left the EU. So I believe that Cameron is right in general that France will make their problem ours the second it’s not a shared problem, i.e. we leave the EU.

However the point is that this is _NOT_ a reason to vote NO. It is a reason to make sure that the procedures and processes to detain and eject the illegals are in place for the very second that we exit the EU. So that when France punts these 7,000 people over, they get them back on the next train or ferry. After all, if they are in the International area they do not have rights under UK law. So long as we hold them in the International area, we can just send them back.

In the case of the Eurostar, the ground In Kings Cross is actually French territory so we just push them through the door and it becomes a French problem again.

I hate FUD but this one has a strong kernel of truth. So if we vote Yes, then we are forewarned and we can deal with it. That’s how I’d like Farage and the OUT camp to handle this. Basically dismiss it to standard government planning and then blame Cameron for what he is really doing. Which is to make his problem our concern.

Simply put we tell them what to do and they do it. Or it should be the way that government works at this level. We don’t micro manage and they do what we tell them to do in broad.

[Workingman]

The issue is whether Cameron was scaremongering regarding Brexit and the "Jungle" and the answer is a resounding "Yes".

Le Touquet is a bilateral agreement and in general they do not have a good history of longevity - either side can pull out at any time. To pretend it is pivotal to the Referendum is bizarre.

Same with the camps. Even if we go for Brexit it is unlikely that we will impose draconian restrictions on EU citizens, nor they us. Those in the camps are not EU citizens. We already can, and do, detain and return them to the place from which they departed to the UK, not their original country. We actually do not enforce it (the law) enough.

[Suff]

Yes I know he was scaremongering. But he wasn't doing it with a Lie, more making a mountain of a molehill. This is hardly WMD and Iraq....