Nationalisation

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Nationalisation

Postby Suff » 16 Mar 2022, 17:49

There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those who understand Binary and those who do not.
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Re: Nationalisation

Postby TheOstrich » 16 Mar 2022, 19:10

An article I read - possibly Guardian, I'm not sure - argued: (a) most of these leased planes were "serviced" elsewhere, so they won't be able to maintained in Russia, and (b) no spare parts will be available because of sanctions, so (c) before too long, they won't be flightworthy and in consequence valueless. Therefore when the Ukraine invasion is over and (hopefully many years down the line) sanctions are finally lifted, Russia will have one huge compensation bill to pay the aircraft leasing companies or they will never be allowed to lease aircraft from the West again.
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Re: Nationalisation

Postby Workingman » 16 Mar 2022, 22:34

It is called "tit for tat".

We "steal" (freeze) $650bn of Russian accounts making it almost impossible for them to pay the $117m interest they owe so they "steal" our planes.

Planes need A, B, C, 3C and D checks. Only A & B can be done by the airlines on-site, the others need specialised servicing hangars. Russia has only one. It will not take long, months, maybe a few years, for all Russian foreign made planes to be grounded.

I have very little sympathy for either side in this shitstorm.

More than ever both sides need to sit down and talk. The playground bully hawkish crap has to stop, it is getting us nowhere... except nearer to all-out war.
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Re: Nationalisation

Postby Suff » 17 Mar 2022, 11:21

I was more interested in a UK paper which often touts nationalisation as a "solution" calling it stealing. Most will forget that kind of inconsistency, I do not.

As for the aircraft going out of service? Remember South Africa under sanctions and the stretched DC3 with turboprops because they could not buy planes on the open market? If they want to put the effort in I'm sure that between Russia and China they can both service these aircraft and manufacture the spare parts. It would take a re-focusing of will and put Russia in the thrall of China, but it could be done.

Talk is fine but Putin has no more intention of stopping than ZA had of abandoning Apartheid. So talk will be exactly that, talk. The one thing which has forced Russia back to the table with any other rhetoric than "surrender" is the very real risk that they could be bogged down and, effectively, lose through lack of inertia and unrest at home. This is what happened in Afghanistan. In the end they could not win and the cost of remaining was too much.

I know that the vast majority of people who watch what is going on don't understand what they see. But things are not quite what you would think. Putin thought this would be a quick smash and grab of Russia with 21st century Russian weapons facing Ukraine with 20th century USSR weapons. There is a very large difference. If Putin's forces had come across tank battles with Hussein level tanks from the 90's, he would have obliterated them and succeeded in his goal.

The thing is Putin's forces did not face 20th century weapons and tactics. He found himself waging a war against some of NATO's most powerful weapons that can easily be moved around. Defensive weapons designed specifically to stall and cripple a large advancing armoured force so that the reserves coming up behind can drive in and destroy them totally. If you look at the tanks Russia is bringing in, they are extremely similar to NATO tanks, with similar armour against tank attack. They are good to go head to head with NATO main battle tanks.

This is why NATO has put so much into our man portable MBT killers. Similarly our man portable aircraft killers (multiple men, not like NLAWS). As the invasion stalls and the sanctions bite, more and more, we see an increasingly frustrated and desperate Russia as this "nationalisation" of planes in use by Russian airlines shows.

Talk? The only thing the Russian negotiators are empowered to discuss are the terms of surrender for Ukraine. Even then, without driving Russia fully out of Ukraine, they will never let go of what they have gained. This means that Ukraine will be in a state of armed rebellion with Russia for decades. Talk? It has the potential to cause more strife and death and misery than just finishing it now.

Right now the talk has two parties, one which wants to know when Ukraine will surrender so that Russia can remake it in an image more suitable to itself, the other which wants to know when every last single Russian will go home over the Russian border.

That is not a negotiation. That is a war of aggression and defence, fought on the ground and "played" with by politicians in the negotiation room.
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